bielesibub Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 39 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Would you say that Hamas isn’t emboldened by the wide scale support their cause gets across the West with very little mention of their hostage taking and terror in the same marches? Palestine seems to be able to pull it all off, act like Islamic barbarians, receive aid and help from across the globe and still have very little demanded of them in the way of acting in any way towards peace. You bring up some really good thought provoking points, this one above is another example and I'd like to add neither side are any good at this. As an outsider looking in, both sides need their heads knocking together and being put into the naughty corner - no questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 36 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Weirdly some people criticise Israel for Hamas firing rockets. You’d better take that up with them then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 3 hours ago, omariqy said: Again no one is saying Jewish people shouldn't have a home there. It's how it's come about that is the issue. In your opinion, what should the Zionists have done when the local Arabs refused to agree to the UN-mandated establishment of Israel? The Palestinians and other Arabs attacked Israel to stop its foundation, so they were obviously extremely serious about it not being allowed to exist. Violence was the only path left, right? This is the point I was making in my post last night (maybe not very well explained). It’s very similar to the plight of the Palestinians in the modern day imo. I detest everything Hamas stands for and condemn their terrorism, but I still wouldn’t say their violence was without cause. I also think Israeli policy over the past couple of decades made that violence far more likely, because they’ve deliberately been trying to move a two-state solution further away. The same applied to the Zionists, right? Albeit with the sides reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 So the Spanish deputy prime minister was caught on camera shouting from the river to the… after Spain decided to recognise Palestine. I’m sure it’s all propaganda though. Makes it very easy for Israel to come out with its usual hits when their opposition is a) dumb, b) openly for erasing Israel and c) backing violence as long as it is committed by the side they’re rooting for. It took two days for Spain’s honourable gesture to be torpedoed by the same thing that plagues the pro-Palestine movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 2 hours ago, magnkarl said: So the Spanish deputy prime minister was caught on camera shouting from the river to the… after Spain decided to recognise Palestine. I’m sure it’s all propaganda though. Makes it very easy for Israel to come out with its usual hits when their opposition is a) dumb, b) openly for erasing Israel and c) backing violence as long as it is committed by the side they’re rooting for. It took two days for Spain’s honourable gesture to be torpedoed by the same thing that plagues the pro-Palestine movement. It wasn't caught, it was deliberate. They were making a statement that it was legitimate to use that phrase, because they were calling for a palestine state, which would be exactly as that phrase suggests geographically. They believe in a 2 state solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Israel is currently bombing the tents, yes the tents, in Rafah. Horrible scenes, another massacre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 13 minutes ago, Jareth said: It wasn't caught, it was deliberate. They were making a statement that it was legitimate to use that phrase, because they were calling for a palestine state, which would be exactly as that phrase suggests geographically. They believe in a 2 state solution. I might be being ignorant or misunderstanding here, so forgive me if so, but in this "FTRTTS" Palestinian state, that is also part of a two state solution, what are the borders of the other state? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Just now, ml1dch said: I might be being ignorant or misunderstanding here, so forgive me if so, but in this "FTRTTS" Palestinian state, that is also part of a two state solution, what are the borders of the other state? Gaza and the West Bank as far as I understand it. I also stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Something I'd like to get off my chest - it's about equivalence. The US were up in arms by the ICC referral that had Hamas and the Israeli government both accused of war crimes. Folks on VT feel there is equivalence between Hamas and the Israeli gov, that both want to wipe each other out regardless of who is doing better at that. Absolutely nobody on VT defends or softens what Hamas have done. The same cannot be said about Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Seeing babies actually beheaded by those who invented lies about beheaded babies to justify their actions is something I wasn't ready for tbh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 1 hour ago, omariqy said: Israel is currently bombing the tents, yes the tents, in Rafah. Horrible scenes, another massacre. The aftermath of the decisions made by Netanyahu is graphic, personally I refuse to look at it because it is too terrible. It needs to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 A British spy plane was flying in the vicinity at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Just now, omariqy said: A British spy plane was flying in the vicinity at the same time The question about RAF involvement in this was asked in parliament and it was shut down. It is sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Here's someone balanced, before Israel defenders bounce in with historical reasoning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 26 VT Supporter Share Posted May 26 (edited) words removed to a man. But you know, it's more important to argue about whether the land is uniquely kosher. Or whether patriotic phrases are worse than genocide. **** Israel and all that support it. Edited May 26 by Chindie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 There was a bloke who sounded like Jamie Oliver on the underground ripping off a woman's veil claiming he was IDF - sure that's not the norm but neither is what's been put against protestors - there's such a shitty back and forth - but I have to say there is an underlying hatred of muslims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dog Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 1 hour ago, omariqy said: Seeing babies actually beheaded by those who invented lies about beheaded babies to justify their actions is something I wasn't ready for tbh. No no no no no no no no I've my views on what's going on, but whatever you feel about things, I hope this isn't true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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