Xela Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Don't Hamas have a lot of leaders in Qatar? I'm surprised Israel haven't gone after them yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 2 Moderator Share Posted January 2 50 minutes ago, magnkarl said: As opposed to The West? The idea that Israel is alone in doing that is absurd. Not long ago US and UK air assets took out an Iranian general in Iraq with plenty of collateral. We also did the same with plenty of terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. I think taking out the leaders of Hamas is 100% better than bombing Gaza, and this particular guy is a co founder of Hamas. It’s the Mossad/CIA/MI6 playbook. I'm not excusing anyone, but if you have someone who is a bad guy and is in a country where there is a structure, it ought to be possible to do things another way. Whether that is trying to secure an arrest or even restricting yourself to the illegal snatch and grab - blowing up buildings or murdering people isn't it. And for clarity, I felt the same way about Bin Laden - the US illegally entered Pakistan and killed him - there would have been an opportunity to arrest and try him, but murder was what they had in mind - the sovereignty of other nations should be given at least as much respect as to let them know you're coming. I know that it happens all the time, but for me it doesn't seem the right way to do things when you're chasing an individual for crimes rather than waging war on a nation or national group. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 2 Moderator Share Posted January 2 28 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Who knows, perhaps if leaders were targeted a bit more, leaders might have a different opinion on war. If we applied international law to those leaders, I reckon that would probably do the trick without having to blow up buildings and take a few people with them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 2 Moderator Share Posted January 2 38 minutes ago, magnkarl said: I think taking out the leaders of Hamas is 100% better than bombing Gaza, and this particular guy is a co founder of Hamas. I'm not sure this is an either/or - Israel would like to be bombing Gaza for most of this year apparently. As a provocative action, you'd have to wonder if this is a deliberate attempt to draw Hezbollah into conflict - perhaps Israel is hoping to solve all it's problems in one go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 38 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: If we applied international law to those leaders, I reckon that would probably do the trick without having to blow up buildings and take a few people with them. International law is pointless unless the relevant country agrees with the ruling OR other countries are willing to intervene and enforce the court judgement using military force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 11 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: If we applied international law to those leaders, I reckon that would probably do the trick without having to blow up buildings and take a few people with them. International law is a wholly Western phenomenon though. Look at Putin, he's wanted by the ICC, it doesn't even affect him. Israel also tried to apply international law to many of the Nazi war criminals post WW2 but countries like Argentine, Brazil, Bolivia, Russia +++ refused to let them be tried or delivered over (even though you can in many cases multiply the crimes committed in the Holocaust by hundreds of thousands in comparison to what's going on today). In many cases Israel flew these guys back to Israel to try them instead of killing them. Imo it's a bit naive to think that Hezbollah would hand over the leaders of Hamas, the same can likely be said about Qatar, when even after the holocaust it was hard to get hardcore genocidal nazis handed over by so called 'allies'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 explosions near the tomb of Iranian general Qasem Soleimani has killed over 100 people. Now who could have done that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 3 Moderator Share Posted January 3 13 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said: 2 explosions near the tomb of Iranian general Qasem Soleimani has killed over 100 people. Now who could have done that? More likely to be Sunni islamist terrorists / separatists than Israel in the circumstances I think. Has more hallmarks of a terrorist attack than something Mossad would carry out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 It's always a real problem when you find it hard to separate conjecture from fact. This whole situation just gets scarier by the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, Mr_Dogg said: 2 explosions near the tomb of Iranian general Qasem Soleimani has killed over 100 people. Now who could have done that? Didn't realise it was Trump who gave the order on that assassination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 4 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4 Nothing new, but despicably evil nation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 9 VT Supporter Share Posted January 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 On 02/01/2024 at 20:08, OutByEaster? said: I'm not sure this is an either/or - Israel would like to be bombing Gaza for most of this year apparently. As a provocative action, you'd have to wonder if this is a deliberate attempt to draw Hezbollah into conflict - perhaps Israel is hoping to solve all it's problems in one go? Does Israel have enough stockpile of weapons to have two wars going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 37 minutes ago, ender4 said: Does Israel have enough stockpile of weapons to have two wars going on? The US has plenty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 It's hard to see how anyone comes out of this well. Iran is reportedly having to hold Hezbollah back as they're afraid of Hezbollah getting annihilated by Israel\US and losing their most powerful Islamist proxy. This was clearly an attempt to reaffirm the priesthood's power after having some serious public blow back in the last couple of years. It feels like we're teetering on a big Middle-Eastern war with Iran's axis getting more and more aggressive and Israel doing exactly what Iran hoped they'd do. What whoever replaces BN needs to do is to get back behind a table with Saudi Arabia and reaffirm the Abraham Accords, Iran stoked Oct. 7th to scupper the deal and so far it seems to have worked. It's a dilemma for SA, but it's not like they're very concerned about Arabian or Muslims lives in other ME conflicts (Yemen, Syria, Lebanon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Gotta give it to Israel, they have literally hired the governance of the world's biggest superpower. Congress members who were more supportive of Israel at the start of the Gaza war received over $100,000 more on average from pro-Israel donors during their last election than those who most supported Palestine, a Guardian analysis of campaign data shows. The findings have “profound implications for what American policy toward … Israel looks like”, said John Mearsheimer, a University of Chicago political scientist and co-author of the 2006 book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. “If there was no lobby pushing Congress in a particular direction in a really forceful way, the position of the US Congress on the war in Gaza would be fundamentally different.” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/10/congress-member-pro-israel-donations-military-support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 10 VT Supporter Share Posted January 10 5 minutes ago, Jareth said: Gotta give it to Israel, they have literally hired the governance of the world's biggest superpower. Congress members who were more supportive of Israel at the start of the Gaza war received over $100,000 more on average from pro-Israel donors during their last election than those who most supported Palestine, a Guardian analysis of campaign data shows. The findings have “profound implications for what American policy toward … Israel looks like”, said John Mearsheimer, a University of Chicago political scientist and co-author of the 2006 book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy. “If there was no lobby pushing Congress in a particular direction in a really forceful way, the position of the US Congress on the war in Gaza would be fundamentally different.” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/10/congress-member-pro-israel-donations-military-support Pro-Israeli organisations are openly gunning for anyone they believe isn't pro-Israel at the upcoming US elections - they are pumping apparently extremely significant money into opposing those they want out, like Omar and Tlaib, but realistically basically anyone that's ever uttered anything pro-Palestine they want gone. Lobbying is a cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 So the Iranian terrorists being shot out the red sea, apparently linked to the Gaza conflict. Seems like a great excuse for the good ole USA to enter the conflict to destroy not just Hezbollah but teach Iran a lesson. Those who know, Is this a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 10 Moderator Share Posted January 10 Seems they're framing the upcoming South African case for prosecution of Israel as 'International Law vs NATO power'. It's pretty clear that South Africa are in the right, there's almost no circumstance in which Israel can claim they haven't spent the last three months committing war crimes, but I suspect that a number of nations are about to discover that International Law is whatever the US says it is and if they don't like it they can die. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) On 02/01/2024 at 20:55, Mandy Lifeboats said: International law is pointless. Fixed. Quote International Law is whatever the US says it is and if they don't like it they can die See Above. Edited January 10 by villa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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