VILLAMARV Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 4 hours ago, magnkarl said: you'd likely also find people surfing in Swansea Bay If you wait until sundown they'd probably glow in the dark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 On 08/11/2023 at 03:10, desensitized43 said: I don’t really care what the cesspit of Twatter says. It’s full of trolls, bots, racists, communists, anarchists, antisemites, fascists and extemists. Just for once though I’d like someone to own what they posts and say what they mean rather than dropping a link which implies something and then cowardly running from it. I've actually stopped using Twitter about a month ago for exactly the reasons you've mentioned here, coincidentally right before this conflict started. It's a complete cesspool in general, but it is even worse since then with how the waters are completely muddied by misinformation and propaganda from seemingly infinite angles. The only sane policy for anyone who remains on there is to believe nothing you read on there. I do however occasionally check in on various officials and official government accounts to gauge their media responses (Bernie Sanders is an example of one that surprised me recently), and I'm routinely perplexed by the Israeli ones in particular. Some are just downright bizarre. In this particular case, looking past the strange optics of it, the numbers don't appear to align with even the Haaretz reporting (a cursory text scrape indicates the number of people listed is significantly less than the 1400 stated for example), and the proportion of military personnel looked way higher than reported which is the thing that surprised me. Instead of engaging with trolls and bots on there, I prefer to sound off in here as people are generally a lot more reasoned and knowledgeable. They are also, to my knowledge, real humans and not automated scripts, which helps . And just as I was hoping, I got some elucidating thoughts from @magnkarl and @bickster which put things into better perspective, so I won't need to expend any more calories on it. I'm hoping the bolded isn't the type of bad faith engagement you'd typically find on the aforementioned X.com, as it were. But to be clear, I've been very mindful not to post any tweets from random accounts, video footage or other opinions in this thread for reasons stated earlier re: muddied waters. I posted an official tweet from one of the parties involved in this conflict and added my thoughts to it, to generate discussion and to see other takes on it, for my own benefit more than anything. This is the beauty of the forum imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 An example of the bizarre posts I'm referring to. This is a Palestinian singer/content creator Saleh Aljafarawi who is also a volunteer/activist. Quite an inspiring fellow honestly. Some of the pictures posted there aren't even of him, such as the "Resilient Patient" one (from the original meme they spliced this picture from) as debunked recently by Reuters and AP. Some are shots of him donating blood (what a monster), or even literally just blogging himself walking down the street (Tour Guide??). None of the videos are Hamas videos, but his own personal Instagram videos or music videos. Calling him a crisis actor is nothing short of a complete fabrication. I say it's bizarre because it's strange in almost a surreal way to see an official account of a nation state posting like Pamela Geller (blast from the past for those who remember her), but really it's more malicious than anything. Not only are they lying on someone's good name to millions of people, but there's also the implication there of "these people are just acting, it's not as bad as they're making it look". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 9, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) Below I'll post a video from yesterday in Jenin, showing a Palestinian medic wearing a medical emblem and vest (not combat medic) taking a weapon from a shot IJ fighter and giving it to another. These incidents cloud the whole situation and makes it really hard for both sides to follow the rules of engagement, and at worst allow an already stretched definition of what is war crimes to be stretched further. Worth considering the next time you hear about 'medics' shot, because as soon as he touched that weapon in another capacity than just removing it from the injured fighter he's considered a valid target in the Geneva convention. Spoiler The above is a war crime as it endangers other medical personnel. Edited November 10, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 What did Hamas think would happen after they attacked Israeli civilians on such as scale? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 10, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted November 10, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Genie said: What did Hamas think would happen after they attacked Israeli civilians on such as scale? As Israel has a superior military, defence and finances not destroyed by corruption, clearly Israel are not allowed to respond. They must ceasefire immediately and wait for the next Hamas attack. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Chindie said: Man throws rocks at enemy soldiers and gets shot. People aren’t really thinking through the repercussions of their actions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 10, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted November 10, 2023 Just now, Genie said: Man throws rocks at enemy soldiers and gets shot. People aren’t really thinking through the repercussions of their actions. He was mentally disabled and so far away from the soldiers and settler vigilantes that he didn't pose a threat. But he was a subhuman Palestinian so why not shoot him in the neck. Should be happy they spent the bullet on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Chindie said: He was mentally disabled and so far away from the soldiers and settler vigilantes that he didn't pose a threat. But he was a subhuman Palestinian so why not shoot him in the neck. Should be happy they spent the bullet on him. There is that age old rule though, do something to piss off an angry man with a gun and you risk getting shot. Sort of sums up what Hamas did on the 7th October quite well. (I’m not making any attempts to take sides here) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Genie said: There is that age old rule though, do something to piss off an angry man with a gun and you risk getting shot. Sort of sums up what Hamas did on the 7th October quite well. (I’m not making any attempts to take sides here) Good point - in the UK you would be arrested and given a prison sentence for shooting someone in those circumstances. I think this is why so many get fed up with Israel - on one hand there is their insistence that they're a democracy just like the west, they allow gay people to be free just like the west - but on the other they are intent on annihilating an entire people. If they want to be considered natural allies, then they need to change their behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Chindie said: But he was a subhuman Palestinian so why not shoot him in the neck. Should be happy they spent the bullet on him. "Sub-human Palestinian" - or a potential threat from a country, whom you are at war, with a government who's manifesto is to destroy you entire country and religion? Did Hamas conduct mental health evaluations on the people they killed? Or does that whole rules of war / engagement only apply to Israel because they have a superior miliary? Edited November 10, 2023 by pas5898 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 10, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2023 Just now, Jareth said: in the UK you would be arrested and given a prison sentence for shooting someone in those circumstances. OT but there are plenty of instances where this isn't the case. The Chris Kaba case springs to mind from very recently. There are plenty of others. It doesn't help anything to make comparisons that are demonstrably untrue just because you believe it to be so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, pas5898 said: "Sub-human Palestinian" - or a potential threat from a country, whom you are at war, with a government who's manifesto is to destroy you entire country and religion? Did Hamas conduct mental health evaluations on the people they killed? Or does that whole rules of war / engagement only apply to Israel because they have a superior miliary? It's **** stones. Honestly. The disregard for human life on here by some people. Just hope one of your family members get caught in something similar. Ask yourself if Hamas was hiding in an Israeli hospital would they bomb the shit out of it or not. Each human ife is worth the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, omariqy said: Each human ife is worth the same. I agree. Including those Israelis, who've just witnessed thousands of theirs massacred in cold blood by people crossing the same border. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 10, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, omariqy said: Ask yourself if Hamas was hiding in an Israeli hospital would they bomb the shit out of it or not. Each human life is worth the same. That’s perfectly put and in one simple sentence completely sums up why what Israel is doing is so outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, blandy said: That’s perfectly put and in one simple sentence completely sums up why what Israel is doing is so outrageous. I'm genuinely not being a *** here, i'm calling it how I see it by the way. Happy to be educated on this. Ask yourself. If Hamas had Israel's miliary strength, would there be an Israel? What would happen to the people there? Genuine question Edited November 10, 2023 by pas5898 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 10, 2023 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2023 Just now, pas5898 said: I'm genuinely not being a *** here, i'm calling it how I see it by the way. Happy to be educated on this. Ask yourself. If Hamas had Israel's military strength, would there be an Israel? What would happen to the people there? Genuine question Oh I know that. It’s hypothetical, but the carnage would be like the mirror of what’s happening inside Gaza, I’d imagine. But it is hypothetical, whereas what’s happening to Palestinians is not. And the thing is, both the current reality, the Hamas attack of 7/10 and the hypothetical are absolutely, unspeakably appalling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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