mjmooney Posted October 15, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2023 21 minutes ago, magnkarl said: It has a lot to do with it when UK Jews are having to answer questions from rabid pro-Palestinians about Israel. I don’t care for Israel, I don’t want to defend it, I’m expected to by a lot of folks who are so far down the rabbit hole that you can’t even imagine it. I’m never going to move to Israel or vote in their elections, so why should I be answering for anything they do? Are you held to account for all Christians at war because you may be Christian? The world’s gone so mad it’s beyond me. All fair points. But aren't you equally unfairly pressured by other Jews to 100% side with Israel, or else be labelled a traitor to your faith/'race'? As far as I can see, the Zionists are as bad for the world's Jews as the jihadists are for the world's Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mjmooney said: All fair points. But aren't you equally unfairly pressured by other Jews to 100% side with Israel, or else be labelled a traitor to your faith/'race'? As far as I can see, the Zionists are as bad for the world's Jews as the jihadists are for the world's Muslims. Not at all. The most rabid zionists aren’t in the UK, they moved to Israel long ago. Shamefully Jews not in Israel are getting harried by people who are rightly angry at Israel when they tend to not want close ties to the place. We’re easy targets for people in the West who are infuriated by their social media echo chambers. Outside the local congregation I got confronted with pictures of bombed children telling me I’m enjoying it as late as this morning, from local students at Southampton Uni. The feeling of the people who aren’t as old as me is to move to Israel because this sort of bullshit is way more than many can handle. Edited October 15, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 48 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I think the aim remains to either remove Gaza from the map altogether or shrink it significantly - a good strategy to reduce terrorist attacks along a border is to remove as much of that border as you can. After some geography homework, the Gaza strip, as it's often called, is currently around 25 miles long and 7.5 miles at its widest point. It's perimeter is around 66 miles long compiled of 7 miles bordering Egypt to the South, a reasonably straight coastline of 25 miles to the West and the remaining 34 miles bordering Israel to the North and East. It's possible Israel is attempting to force the strip into a 'Gaza square' at the Egyptian border. It'll shrink their border to secure from 34 miles to 14, a reduction of almost 60%. It'll make life in Gaza even more difficult than it is now and presumably restrict any population growth, another benefit to Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted October 15, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2023 36 minutes ago, magnkarl said: It has a lot to do with it when UK Jews are having to answer questions from rabid pro-Palestinians about Israel. I don’t care for Israel, I don’t want to defend it, I’m expected to by a lot of folks who are so far down the rabbit hole that you can’t even imagine it. I’m never going to move to Israel or vote in their elections, so why should I be answering for anything they do? Are you held to account for all Christians at war because you may be Christian? The world’s gone so mad it’s beyond me. An example if you will, I gave one of my extended elderly family members a ride to the Southampton Hebrew congregation for a memorial service for one of the kids that got killed at the festival today, and outside this congregation you’ve got a crowd of people burning Israeli flags, shouting all sorts of stuff about zionists and being incredibly threatening. How do you think it feels? Horrible I would imagine. I do not understand why people are allowed to celebrate a terrorist atrocity involving children, women and babies on the streets of this country without any consequence 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 15, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 15, 2023 21 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Horrible I would imagine. I do not understand why people are allowed to celebrate a terrorist atrocity involving children, women and babies on the streets of this country without any consequence Orange lodge marches are still legal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted October 15, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, bickster said: Orange lodge marches are still legal. Commemorating the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 to burning flags and celebrating the massacre of people whose bodies are not even cold is not a credible comparison Edited October 15, 2023 by Follyfoot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Awol said: Iranian Minister of Foreign Affairs, today: "There is an opportunity for Israel to make amends in the coming hours. If not, the resistance will enhance its strategies and change the map of the region." Source: Al Jazeera Live Israel has already delayed entry into Gaza at US urging, but suspect that was to give the US time to get more assets into place. Meanwhile, Iran is talking itself into a position it can’t credibly retreat from - on the face of it a militarily unwise course of action. Can’t help thinking there is another shoe to drop that we aren’t seeing yet, because Tehran is normally far more pragmatic than this in calculating the odds. What, for example, did Iran manage to negotiate from Russia in return for all the loitering munitions, ammunition, artillery barrels, and instructors? Yes, there’s a bit of head scratching on what the next step will be for Iran. Perhaps they don’t think the IDF will go as far as completely reshaping Gaza? I’m not sure. Perhaps the damage done and the imminent invasion is enough for them. The Palestinians a useful patsy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vive_La_Villa Posted October 15, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: It has a lot to do with it when UK Jews are having to answer questions from rabid pro-Palestinians about Israel. I don’t care for Israel, I don’t want to defend it, I’m expected to by a lot of folks who are so far down the rabbit hole that you can’t even imagine it. I’m never going to move to Israel or vote in their elections, so why should I be answering for anything they do? Are you held to account for all Christians at war because you may be Christian? The world’s gone so mad it’s beyond me. An example if you will, I gave one of my extended elderly family members a ride to the Southampton Hebrew congregation for a memorial service for one of the kids that got killed at the festival today, and outside this congregation you’ve got a crowd of people burning Israeli flags, shouting all sorts of stuff about zionists and being incredibly threatening. How do you think it feels? Innocent Muslims in the western world have had to suffer this for years whenever there is a terrorist attack around the world. Even Sikhs got targeted in America in after 9-11 because they wore turbans so look like some Afghan Muslims. Most rational people would know that what is going on right now doesn’t mean every Jewish person is to blame just how it doesn’t mean every Muslim is a terrorist. Unfortunately many people are idiots. Edited October 15, 2023 by Vive_La_Villa 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-k Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, mjmooney said: There you go again, falling into the antisemitism trap. Nothing to do with the 'evil Jew', it's the evil Israeli regime. Just as condemning jihadism is not Islamophobic. They're evil for wanting to wipe out a terrorist organization that is detrimental to the safety of the Palestinian citizens they are meant to govern? I'm not really sure what people think they should have done in response to the barbaric slaughterings last weeks, especially when those were committed by individuals who have stated they want Israel and all Jews wiped off the map. I can't believe it's a week later and people still think Israel should do nothing, leave the hostages, and let Hamas grow. Only terrorists, and not Palestinians, win in that situation. Just as being objective is not Islamophobic or Palestinianphobic... Edited October 15, 2023 by a-k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 minute ago, a-k said: They're evil for wanting to wipe out a terrorist organization that is detrimental to the safety of the Palestinian citizens they are meant to govern? I'm not really sure what people think they should have done in response to the barbaric slaughterings last weeks, especially when those were committed by individuals who have stated they want Israel and all Jews wiped off the map. I can't believe it's a week later and people still think Israel should do nothing, leave the hostages, and let Hamas grow. Only terrorists, and not Palestinians, win in that situation. Just as being objective is not Islamophobic or Palestinianphobic... You should name these people that think Israel should do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted October 15, 2023 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted October 15, 2023 56 minutes ago, a-k said: people still think Israel should do nothing, leave the hostages, and let Hamas grow I haven’t seen anyone say that at all. I’ve seen people massively concerned that Israel is about and maybe already has done more and worse in “retaliation”. They’ve dropped more than 6000 bombs on an area the size of Brum or greater Manchester, but much more densely packed with civilians. They’ve created another generation of Palestinians so traumatised that they will, some of them no doubt replace the Hamas fighters that get killed. They’ve targeted and killed women and children following the Israeli declared “safe route” out of the area being bombarded. The Israeli response for a long time has been “if you do something to us, we’ll do 10 times worse back to you”. It hasn’t remotely worked and the vast majority of the victims on both sides are innocents. I completely agree Israel has to respond to the atrocities of last weekend, but not that the response should be to commit multiple war crimes on 2.4 million people 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted October 15, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 15, 2023 It's quite a big leap from "Israel should do nothing" to "Israel should commit war crimes". 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 15, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 15, 2023 18 hours ago, Pongo Waring said: This is good news right? Assuming they keep civilian casualties to an absolute minimum, only target Hamas, wipe them out and then retreat and give the land back to Palestinians then its great news 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Assuming they keep civilian casualties to an absolute minimum, only target Hamas, wipe them out and then retreat and give the land back to Palestinians then its great news Even Zaniolo wouldn't give you odds on that 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 15, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 15, 2023 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364 Quote Cabinet minister Gideon Sa’ar has appeared on Israeli TV. He said Hamas must be destroyed so it could never threaten Israel again, adding this would serve as a lesson to the region. He also said that Gaza must end up smaller - with Israel taking control of a belt of land in the east and north of the strip. This would be a "security zone" and anyone who entered it would be "intercepted" by the military.He made clear these objectives were his personal views. but that he was saying them everywhere. Sa’ar said losing land was the price that “Arabs understand”. A price that Arabs understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364 A price that Arabs understand. A price they’re familiar with, at least these particular Arabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 3 hours ago, a-k said: They're evil for wanting to wipe out a terrorist organization that is detrimental to the safety of the Palestinian citizens they are meant to govern? I'm not really sure what people think they should have done in response to the barbaric slaughterings last weeks, especially when those were committed by individuals who have stated they want Israel and all Jews wiped off the map. I can't believe it's a week later and people still think Israel should do nothing, leave the hostages, and let Hamas grow. Only terrorists, and not Palestinians, win in that situation. Just as being objective is not Islamophobic or Palestinianphobic... All the kids that survive Israel‘s attempts to wipe out Hamas will be the next generations Hamas. Wonder why they would have so much hatred towards Israel. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: All the kids that survive Israel‘s attempts to wipe out Hamas will be the next generations Hamas. Wonder why they would have so much hatred towards Israel. …and equally, the school friends of stolen kidnapped Israeli children will grow up to be soldiers and politicians hell bent on keeping Palestinians in a pen. Eventually, at some point they will need to talk to each other, or one side will be eradicated, by bulldozers, or bullets, or a bomb nobody thought they’d use. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: All the kids that survive Israel‘s attempts to wipe out Hamas will be the next generations Hamas. Not if Israel wipes them all out now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts