It's Your Round Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Yep it looks like Israel are going to finally get their wish and completely obliterate the Gaza Strip. Now entering full on war crime mode. I worry for the citizens on both sides, and for the wider implications should this keep escalating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Waring Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, Chindie said: Israel has amassed a huge number of troops on the Gazan border including heavy armour like tanks. The powers out, hospitals are overrun and generators about to run dry, and Gaza is one of the most densely packed areas on the planet. They'll be running out of coffins pretty shortly. Israel is going to kill everything that moves. That border is going to be moving. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 11, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2023 And the British government is loudly pledging support for Israel. How long before we see a resurgence of Islamic terrorism in this country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 29 minutes ago, Chindie said: Israel has amassed a huge number of troops on the Gazan border including heavy armour like tanks. The powers out, hospitals are overrun and generators about to run dry, and Gaza is one of the most densely packed areas on the planet. They'll be running out of coffins pretty shortly. Israel is going to kill everything that moves. That border is going to be moving. Biden: "Israel has a duty to respond"...in other words, "Kill them all". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Jareth said: Gaza would become the Barry Island of Palestine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chindie Posted October 11, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2023 25 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said: Source? Which bit? Troops amassing on the border? Quote Israel has amassed 100,000 troops as well as a number of tanks on the border to Gaza as part of a likely build-up for an anticipated land attack on Gaza. Hospitals overrun? Quote “The hospital is completely full and things have started to run low. And this is only day four,” said Ghassan Abu-Sittah, a surgeon at Gaza City’s main hospital, al-Shifa. Power out? Quote As Gaza’s sole power station ran out of fuel amid a tightening siege, hundreds of terrified people sought shelter in the entry of the enclave’s largest hospital, huddling together as bombardments rained down. Quote Hospital generators about to fail? Quote The Gazan authorities have been warning that without power or fuel, the strip’s hospitals and emergency services will not be able to function. Al-Shifa Hospital, the Gaza Strip’s largest medical complex, has enough fuel to power its backup generators for another four days at most, its director said on Wednesday. The last bit is speculation, but urban warfare is nightmarish at the best of the times and always leads to massive casualties, and Gaza is about the most urban urban can get - it has a population density of about 17000 per square mile. They're going to kill innocent people. Hamas could run around in neon overalls and they'd still rack up civilian casualties, and frankly it's pretty obvious Israel isn't that bothered about keeping civilian death tolls down in the best of circumstances, and this isn't that, they're after blood. After which, why not just take over administration of the Strip? You could dress it up at the right thing to do, to take over the running of the region in the vacuum left. Or maybe just take a little bit, the bits particularly well cleared. Israel has previous in this regard. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 11, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2023 34 minutes ago, mjmooney said: And the British government is loudly pledging support for Israel. How long before we see a resurgence of Islamic terrorism in this country? It wouldn't be a shock. I think there's some misunderstanding of how much a lot of people look at Palestine and can see it for what it is. There were pro-Palestine marches around the country today, and some bloke in Sheffield even climbed up the Town Hall to 'forcibly remove' the Israeli flag. Ireland, understandably, tends to get the position on this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chindie Posted October 11, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2023 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: I agree this is the best solution, but how could it ever be possible if the one entity with the power to make it happen are diametrically opposed to the idea? I can’t imagine a one-state solution is a good idea when the ethnic groups involved have this much bad blood. Countries have fought bloody civil wars and broken apart for far less. Israel should force their settlers off the occupied West Bank and continue with the previously planned two state solution imo. Maybe if the Israelis turn against the hard right parties currently in charge they might recognise the settler movement is more trouble than it’s worth. (Clearly that is very unlikely to happen.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 14 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: I can’t imagine a one-state solution is a good idea when the ethnic groups involved have this much bad blood. Countries have fought bloody civil wars and broken apart for far less. Israel should force their settlers off the occupied West Bank and continue with the previously planned two state solution imo. Maybe if the Israelis turn against the hard right parties currently in charge they might recognise the settler movement is more trouble than it’s worth. (Clearly that is very unlikely to happen.) Counterpoint: Rwanda. But I agree it does seem unlikely and 2 state seems the most feasible, but even that's all moot as long as Likud is in power. Looks like they finally got their provocation to completely annexe Palestine now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Waring Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Any reason why the other Arab countries like Egypt or Qatar etc don't take the Palestinian people in? I'd say this is an issue for the middle east and not us. I don't see the point of the protests about this in the UK. Don't see what it achieves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said: Any reason why the other Arab countries like Egypt or Qatar etc don't take the Palestinian people in? I'd say this is an issue for the middle east and not us. I don't see the point of the protests about this in the UK. Don't see what it achieves? You don’t feel Britain has contributed to this problem, or you just think its got out of hand so we should wash our hands of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Waring Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 29 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: You don’t feel Britain has contributed to this problem, or you just think its got out of hand so we should wash our hands of it? No. Britain have nothing to do with problem in 2023. It's 3453.954 miles away. This conflict is all about religion, Islam and Judaism. Two groups of people that will never get along. The Arab world doesn't want Judaism being in the middle east. The Jews don't want Islam being in Israel. This doesn't answer the question to why the neighbouring countries are turning a blind eye to it. Why not help and take in the innocent civilians! I've heard Egypt have built a war to stop people from fleeing? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said: No. Britain have nothing to do with problem in 2023. It's 3453.954 miles away. This conflict is all about religion, Islam and Judaism. Two groups of people that will never get along. The Arab world doesn't want Judaism being in the middle east. The Jews don't want Islam being in Israel. This doesn't answer the question to why the neighbouring countries are turning a blind eye to it. Why not help and take in the innocent civilians! I've heard Egypt have built a war to stop people from fleeing? The UK is a first world G7 country and in the last 12 months we’ve welcomed 19,400 people with the granting of refugee status so asking somewhere that isn’t G7 to take 2.4 million refugees might be a big ask. Britain sells arms to one side. We have plenty to do with the problem in 2023. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 12, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 12, 2023 Britain doesn't even recognise Palestine as a state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 7 hours ago, magnkarl said: The UN has the worst record at keeping people safe though. Srebrenica being the stand out example. In my mind there’s only one solution, a one state solution where everyone has the same democratic rights no matter their religion or race. Second to that a two state solution with a Berlin style highway through Israel to Gaza and severe punishment for any side that attacks the other. The problem for Israelis is that this would pretty quickly become just another Arab country in the Middle East, albeit one with a minority Jewish population, simply due to the demographics over time. They would then presumably worry about a future where the majority population turns on them and drives them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Chindie said: Britain doesn't even recognise Palestine as a state. And pretty much all of Israel's neighbours don't recognise Israel as a state, your point being? Both states have issues as they've been conquered, enslaved, ravaged and war-torn by pretty much everyone and anyone. The Ottoman Empire, Egypt, Britain, Persia, Crusaders, Salahadin, Romans, Assyrians, Babylonians.. The Kingdom of Israel was founded 1000 years BCE, and encompasses much of the territory (except Gaza, or Philestine as it was called then), respectively 1000 and 1500 years before Christianity and Islam was even invented. Heck, the common identity that these two groups of people should focus on is how "#¤%"# they've been by the world, and try to move on from there. Edited October 12, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Pongo Waring said: No. Britain have nothing to do with problem in 2023. It's 3453.954 miles away. This conflict is all about religion, Islam and Judaism. It's hardly ever about religion. It's a tool used to justify ideology behind a conflict. It's about someone coming into another's house (with international backing) and taking all their rooms and possessions and pushing them to the cellar. As you can imagine, everyone is pissed in that scenario. Edited October 12, 2023 by Mic09 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: It's hardly ever about religion. It's a tool used to justify ideology behind a conflict. It's about someone coming into another's house (with international backing) and taking all their rooms and possessions and pushing them to the cellar. Yes, religion is not the cause. Although it does seem to give people more confidence that what they are doing is still ‘right’, even if it might feel a bit inhumane to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 I disagree it is about religion just taken to the extreme. 38 minutes ago, LondonLax said: It's a tool used to justify ideology behind a conflict Close, my take on it is a tool to justify conflict behind ideology (I.e. religious extremism). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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