fruitvilla Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, a-k said: So were Sweden's. Should Russia give back Karelia to Sweden? The Finns might object to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustibrooks Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Thank goodness the story about hamas beheading children was fake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, maqroll said: Most Palestinians are Sunni. That's what I meant by Hamas being a Sunni organisation. Iran is predominantly Shiite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Both sides have the blood of innocents on their hands. It's no different to the Irish struggle or the South African struggle. That is the nature of the beast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: That's what I meant by Hamas being a Sunni organisation. Iran is predominantly Shiite. Right, sorry,I got that flipped. It might be that supporting Palestinians is a broadly popular policy across the Islamic world, no matter the sectarian considerations. And if you can keep a militant group of the opposite sect on a leash and willing to antagonize Israel for you, it's a win-win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 10, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 10, 2023 Always worth taking a step back from the most cartoonishly evil allegations. They might be true, but lies can get round the world before the truth has got it's boots on as well. Let the fog clear. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 10, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 10, 2023 The worst of this conflict is that there is no visible way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: No, it’s the collective farms inside Israel that Hamas attacked. In one they’ve found 120 executed people, including people from different countries around Europe. Ahhh right, sorry I misunderstood what you were saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 (edited) Premier League clubs are wary of being seen to take sides in the Middle East conflict and are awaiting guidance from the league over how to commemorate the victims of the attacks in Israel. The FA is in talks over how to respond when England play Australia. Figures outside the FA fear a minute’s silence would be met with unrest inside the ground. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/10/premier-league-clubs-wary-of-being-seen-to-take-sides-in-middle-east-conflict You can see why they're umming and ahhing, fans shouting something like "free Palestine" during a minutes silence would be pretty big news and quite embarrassing for the UK gov. Edited October 10, 2023 by Jareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 hours ago, magnkarl said: The pictures coming out of the kibbutzes where Hamas have been are awful. 40 dead children, many dismembered have apparently been found in one. Hamas have inflicted a wound to the Palestinian cause that Israel could only dream of inflicting. Have they actually, though? A week ago the Palestinian cause was dead. Israel wasn’t even pretending to care about the peace process / Palestinian rights any more, and the other Arab states were essentially legitimising that state of affairs by recognising Israel. If nothing changed, in 10-20 years the Gaza Strip is still an open air prison and the West Bank has been fully settled by Israelis. You’re right that the optics of this massacre are absolutely terrible for the Palestinian cause, but their chance of a worthwhile peace deal was already zero. But now even if Israel reacts relatively proportionally the Arab rulers are going to find it a lot harder to conveniently forget about the Palestinians and establish friendly diplomatic ties with Israel, no matter how much they might want to. And in the medium term, Israel might reconsider constantly turning the screws on the Palestinians without also having a plausible path to peace on the table. Also, there’s a real risk here Israel goes way too hard into Gaza and intentionally or accidentally commits major atrocities of their own. The situation gets way more unpredictable if that happens. It might even end up boosting the Palestinian cause more than anything else in living memory. (Not sure how much consolation that’s going to be to the thousands of Palestinians who are going to die in Israeli retaliation over the next few weeks, though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, avfc1982am said: TBH what they've done to this poor German girl is f****** disgusting. You lose all moral position when you start murdering the innocent and do things this young girl was subjected too. I saw the video of her naked body on the back of that truck. She was definitely dead. Hopefully it was a quick death as I don’t want to imagine what could have happened first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pongo Waring Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 I think both sides are as bad as each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 10, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 10, 2023 The papers are running with the story of beheaded babies in the morning - even though the Israeli army are saying it isn't true. Truth is still searching for those boots. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villa4europe Posted October 10, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jareth said: Premier League clubs are wary of being seen to take sides in the Middle East conflict and are awaiting guidance from the league over how to commemorate the victims of the attacks in Israel. The FA is in talks over how to respond when England play Australia. Figures outside the FA fear a minute’s silence would be met with unrest inside the ground. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/10/premier-league-clubs-wary-of-being-seen-to-take-sides-in-middle-east-conflict You can see why they're umming and ahhing, fans shouting something like "free Palestine" during a minutes silence would be pretty big news and quite embarrassing for the UK gov. Without wanting to sound too callous... Just do nothing... They don't get involved with various other events around the world (although they obviously did with Ukraine) they don't need to do anything Friday night Not sure why it's something that people look to football for, I'm not a believer in strictly keeping politics out of football or footballers out of politics but nothing needs to be done during England vs Australia, where do you draw the line on things like minutes silence and black armbands? Strange we didn't do it for Yemen... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: The papers are running with the story of beheaded babies in the morning - even though the Israeli army are saying it isn't true. Truth is still searching for those boots. If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing Malcolm X 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, Jareth said: Premier League clubs are wary of being seen to take sides in the Middle East conflict and are awaiting guidance from the league over how to commemorate the victims of the attacks in Israel. The FA is in talks over how to respond when England play Australia. Figures outside the FA fear a minute’s silence would be met with unrest inside the ground. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/10/premier-league-clubs-wary-of-being-seen-to-take-sides-in-middle-east-conflict You can see why they're umming and ahhing, fans shouting something like "free Palestine" during a minutes silence would be pretty big news and quite embarrassing for the UK gov. They should just skip it. The Premier League can issue a generic statement on social media and clubs can opt in or out of doing likewise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said: I think both sides are as bad as each other The leaders on both sides should be charged with war crimes and sit side by side in the dock. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, ender4 said: I saw the video of her naked body on the back of that truck. She was definitely dead. Hopefully it was a quick death as I don’t want to imagine what could have happened first. Yeah she was 100% dead, even though Hamas are claiming shes in a hospital. Despicable the video is tbh, and then to chant God is great. Scumbags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Without wanting to sound too callous... Just do nothing... They don't get involved with various other events around the world (although they obviously did with Ukraine) they don't need to do anything Friday night Not sure why it's something that people look to football for, I'm not a believer in strictly keeping politics out of football or footballers out of politics but nothing needs to be done during England vs Australia, where do you draw the line on things like minutes silence and black armbands? Strange we didn't do it for Yemen... Yeah it's a tough one - football has quite often held minutes silence in solidarity for things like this - but the fact they are unsure what to do just shows where authentic public opinion is - and it's not going to be something they can control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 minute ago, maqroll said: They should just skip it. The Premier League can issue a generic statement on social media and clubs can opt in or out of doing likewise. I don't even agree with that I'm not sure who is watching this unfold on the news and is sat thinking "ah man, I wonder what Harry Kane and Gareth Southgate make of all this" or "Aston Villa need to release a statement on this telling me which side of the conflict I should be supporting" 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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