Demitri_C Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 15 minutes ago, snowychap said: You haven't 'done it', though, have you? You've listed out the names of the people who have died this year. You haven't compared it to Jan-April last year as you haven't given the names (or numbers) for Jan-April 2017. You have shown 'some facts' not 'the facts'. That's knife crime across England and Wales up to the year ending September 2017 as per the CSEW. Just to actually quote the bit in the link: There are a number of things, here - and it's at the heart of why the posts you've made on this topic really piss me off. God snowy take a chill pill. Because someone has a different opinion to you you get pissed off? That is actually ridiculous With regards to your actual post I have supplied more facts than you have on this subject. To actually I found this for 2017 and shows that it was no better in 2017 Quote London stabbings: 80 people stabbed to death in capital in 2017 after four killed in 'senseless' New Year knife attacks Murders end year that saw highest number of teenagers murdered in London since 2008 Lizzie Dearden Home Affairs Correspondent @lizziedearden Tuesday 2 January 2018 11:45 GMT Click to follow The Independent Online Police and forensic officers at the scene of a stabbing at Bartholomew Court, near Old Street in London PA Six people have been arrested following murders that took four young lives as the UK celebrated New Year’s Eve. Police condemned the “senseless” killings of a 17-year-old boy, an 18-year-old man and two others aged 20, which pushed the number of people stabbed to death in London to 80 in 2017. The unrelated stabbings bring the number of teenagers murdered in the capital to the highest for almost a decade, with 20 stabbed, five shot and one victim dying of multiple injuries last year. READ MORE Four killed in New Year’s Eve stabbings across London It is the highest number of teenage homicides in the city since 2008, coming amid mounting concern over a rise in violence including knife crime, moped robberies and acid attacks. Sir Craig Mackey, the Deputy Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said it was “truly unusual and extraordinary” for so many murders to take place in such a short period of time. “The reasons behind it are quite complex,” he added. “There are a number of issues affecting knife crime. “We are absolutely clear we are doing our part to do the things we can do as the police service... but we need others across London working with us to help tackle those underlying issues around a knife culture that has emerged across London.” Police and forensic officers at the scene of a stabbing at Bartholomew Court, near Old Street in London (PA) He added: “I’m not here today to ask for or bid for more resources, we’d always like more resources in terms of those things we tackle. “But it’s clear there are things we can do at the moment collectively that will help around knife crime.” Sir Craig, who was awarded a knighthood in the New Year Honours, said police were searching for weapons in communities and public places, going into schools and seized hundreds of knives in November and December. READ MORE Met chief says extra funding would help combat violent crime Police told to hike council tax contributions for £450m funding Rape trial collapses after police fail to disclose sex messages “We need to find out why some young people think it is acceptable to carry knives, and this is where community organisations and local initiatives, charities, schools and educators, youth workers and families all have an important role to play in changing this mindset,” he added. A 19-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of stabbing a man to death at a New Year’s Eve house party. Police said the suspect was arrested in the Hackney area shortly before 9pm on Monday and remains in custody. He is accused of murdering a 20-year-old man who was pronounced dead at a flat in Bartholomew Court, Islington, at around 3.30am. UK news in pictures 50show all A second victim, also aged 20, was stabbed in the same incident and remains in a critical but stable condition in hospital. “Officers believe that both men had attended a house party at the address and a disturbance broke out which then led to both of them receiving stab injuries,” Scotland Yard said. It was the last murder in a spate of bloodshed that started at 11.30am on Sunday with the murder of an 18-year-old man. He was found suffering from stab injuries inside a building in Larmans Road, Enfield. The victim was flown to hospital by air ambulance but died that night. Three male suspects aged 17, 18 and 21 have been arrested on suspicion of murder, while two others aged 17 and 19 have been charged with suspicion of possession of an offensive weapon. The 17-year-old murder suspect is under arrest at a London hospital and the others remain in police custody. Shortly after 7.30pm on the same day, a 20-year-old man was attacked in Memorial Avenue, near West Ham Tube station in east London. A police van on Memorial Avenue in West Ham, east London, near to the scene of a stabbing (PA) Police arrived to find the victim suffering from several stab injuries and paramedics could not resuscitate him, pronouncing him dead at the scene. Detective Chief Inspector Will Reynolds appealed for members of a group he was with at the time of the stabbing to come forward, adding: “This attack has robbed a young man of his future and robbed a family of their loved one. I know that there were people in the area who witnessed the incident.” Three hours later, a 17-year-old boy was fatally stabbed near Tulse Hill railway station in south London, dying on the pavement from a single wound. Detectives said they had an “open mind” over possible motives but that the victim was involved in an argument on a bus travelling through the area shortly before the attack. Commander Neil Jerome, of the Metropolitan Police’s Territorial Policing Command, said specialist officers were supporting four grieving families after the “senseless” killings. “I would urge anyone with information about these attacks, and more generally about anyone who routinely carries a knife, to urgently pass that information to police or Crimestoppers,” he added. “If you’ve hesitated to do so before, then these four tragic deaths at the start of a new year may persuade you to act now to make London safer for your family and friends in 2018.” Police officers in Tulse Hill, south London, after a 17-year-old boy was stabbed to death (PA) Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, repeated the call for information and said his thoughts were with the victims’ families. “We will work tirelessly in 2018 and beyond to stamp out this scourge. I want to be absolutely clear – if you use a knife the full force of the law will be brought down on you,” he added. “You will be caught and prosecuted.” Cressida Dick, the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said stabbings had risen by 15 per cent in the capital in 2017 and warned the crime wave was being driven by a “core group of young offenders” repeatedly committing assault and robbery “with relative impunity”. The London murders came amid a spate of violence across the UK as millions celebrated the start of 2018. A mother was allegedly murdered by her husband shortly before midnight and five people were stabbed at a Great Gatsby-themed party in Sheffield. Crime reported to police has risen by 13 per cent across England and Wales in the past year, with the increase partly attributed to a “genuine rise in violent crime”. Spoiler CLICK Also just to add Stabbings in London are at their highest level in six years, with a 23 per cent rise from the previous year. 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snowychap Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Because someone has a different opinion to you you get pissed off? That is actually ridiculous It would be if that were why I was pissed off. It wasn't. It is the approach to the discussion which you've taken here and which many others have and do take elsewhere. 12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: With regards to your actual post I have supplied more facts than you have on this subject. And they are a jumbled mess. They relate to different periods in time, different areas, they are not easy to draw comparisons with and they are not easy to draw worthwhile conclusions from in order to inform a discussion on what is happening and how to address it. Edited April 6, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Also just to add Stabbings in London are at their highest level in six years, with a 23 per cent rise from the previous year. This is a line from the Sun article you quoted but failed to link to in your earlier post, isn't it? Quote Are stabbings on the rise? Knife crime across the country has risen by a staggering 21 per cent in the 12 months to September 2017, according to quarterly figures released by the Office of National Statistics. Stabbings in London are at their highest level in six years, with a 23 per cent rise from the previous year. Unfortunately, they don't state where the data in support of this claim comes from so we can check what it actually represents. This claim might be correct but it would be nice to know where The Sun have got their facts from. They're not exactly known for their honesty or, for that matter, their grasp of maths. Edited April 6, 2018 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Just now, snowychap said: This is a line from the Sun article you quoted but failed to link to in your earlier post, isn't it? Unfortunately, they don't state where the data in support of this claim comes from so we can check what it actually represents. This claim might be correct but it would be nice to know where The Sun have got their facts from. They're not exactly known for their honeesty or, for that matter, their grasp of maths. Yeah my mistake was meant to include that quote too. My post was abit of a mess as was trying to quote so many things. I don't like the sun so wanted to check their info but as you point out its hard to see if thats actually correct as the sun are notorious for telling fibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yeah my mistake was meant to include that quote too. My post was abit of a mess as was trying to quote so many things. I don't like the sun so wanted to check their info but as you point out its hard to see if thats actually correct as the sun are notorious for telling fibs. I assume that it is referring back to the numbers they have earlier in the article: Quote 12,980 knife crimes taking place in the capital - 2,452 more than the equivalent year but we'll have to guess at where they got those figures. I suppose it was from the crime and survey figures as it follows on from the overall numbers so that's an increase from year ending Sept '16 to year ending Sept '17. As they say highest level in six years, it would be nice to see the time series of data they're talking about because this comment suggests that knife crime in the year ending Sept '17 has returned to a level seen six years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 2 hours ago, snowychap said: I assume that it is referring back to the numbers they have earlier in the article: but we'll have to guess at where they got those figures. I suppose it was from the crime and survey figures as it follows on from the overall numbers so that's an increase from year ending Sept '16 to year ending Sept '17. As they say highest level in six years, it would be nice to see the time series of data they're talking about because this comment suggests that knife crime in the year ending Sept '17 has returned to a level seen six years ago. Woah that’s a worrying statistic if that’s the case snowy. It’s very difficult to get “periods” trying to find crime rates for the first four months of the year is difficult for previous year. Its a worrying sign if crime is worse here than bigger places like New York although I guess you could argue more people so more crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 6 hours ago, PompeyVillan said: orange people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted April 6, 2018 Administrator Share Posted April 6, 2018 8 hours ago, Rob182 said: I drove past the area on the way to the hospital for a breastfeeding class and didn't see anything. Forgot your glasses? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 safe for who? i’m not at the same risk as the kids whose families live on the estates, and the two latest stabbibgs happened within 500m of my flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 So we need good guys with knives to combat the bad guys with knives? Or could it be that the correlation between cuts in funding for things like having a police force, youth clubs, social services and the increase in the crime rate is actually a causation? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 7 hours ago, The_Rev said: police force, youth clubs, social services and the increase in the crime rate is actually a causation? I think these all have a role but not as big as you would think. IMO social media is the driving force, minor incidents are now on youtube with revenge, embarrassment and reputation all playing a role in creating death and destruction. Every gang is know and address each other via social media, "ÿou do this, we do this" and so on. There is no backing down from confrontation anymore and it is actively searched out in search of the other 2 main driving forces, Assets and Reputation. Assets and Reputation, the more you get of either one you automatically increase the other reciprocally. It's about controlling areas and people and they want as much assets as possible be it cars, mobiles or money. They want as much as possible from wherever as fast as possible. This is a totally different world. So, how and where do they get it. Drugs and just taking things from people. In the 1970's you could wait forever for someone to walk past with €500 + worth of stuff on him, 99% of people now have that in one pocket. They will go after Assets and Reputation down the easiest route possible as they are doing now and protecting what they have. No amount of Police, social workers or anything like that is going to stop this now, Normal kids are now rightly scared in some areas and they will now start tooling themselves up just for protection and thus, even the kids who are not criminals will get caught up in it. IMO it's going to get a lot lot worse. From the gangs point of view they are going to get the Assets and Reputation no matter what you do. Maybe there is no other route that is obvious for them to take to get them (Or they would take that route (Eg education)) "Tough on crime and the causes of crime" and "The war on Drug's", how's that all panning out for the government ? If they decriminalised Cannabis then a lot of the problems would go away but that's just my view (A complete thick solid layer of criminality exists just for this in the UK), how much time and money does chasing that take a year for the Police and the public. Good use of billions a year ? it's working so well :-) , they are not going to win that little battle ever so step back and re-asses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Social media definitely plays a part, that’s a very good point. In London now they call it “post code wars” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Post code wars predate social media though, I've worked in London for 15 years and remember Lisson Grove (NW8) being the stabbiest most "no go" area in zone 1 waaaaay before anybody knew what a Facebook was. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Yes, gang wars like this are nothing new, however social media certainly can escalate things a lot more than in the old days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 3 hours ago, The_Rev said: Post code wars predate social media though, I've worked in London for 15 years and remember Lisson Grove (NW8) being the stabbiest most "no go" area in zone 1 waaaaay before anybody knew what a Facebook was. True but any wannabe gangster in the whole of London can now look up who is the top boy in postcode X and do something about it if they so wish or insult or brag or whatever. This in turn can be seen by 100's of 1000's of people instantly. A gang from SW would never know who was in the gangs in the NW in reality unless they sent each other letters. Social media has given a few pricks on a corner a world wide stage and they are using it. Want to know a stabby area, have a look on he internet and I am sure you can see it for real nowadays as they don''t take em down. I suspect (Not having a pop, just a guess) the NW8 thing was in reality word of mouth or exaggeration at the very least. What we are seeing now is only the beginning, Social media was just the Fuel on the fire this needed unfortunately. If this summer is super warm in London then get prepared, it's going to get grim. With all the cuts and everyone's eye half on terrorism it could go very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 35 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: True but any wannabe gangster in the whole of London can now look up who is the top boy in postcode X and do something about it if they so wish or insult or brag or whatever. This in turn can be seen by 100's of 1000's of people instantly. A gang from SW would never know who was in the gangs in the NW in reality unless they sent each other letters. Social media has given a few pricks on a corner a world wide stage and they are using it. Want to know a stabby area, have a look on he internet and I am sure you can see it for real nowadays as they don''t take em down. I suspect (Not having a pop, just a guess) the NW8 thing was in reality word of mouth or exaggeration at the very least. What we are seeing now is only the beginning, Social media was just the Fuel on the fire this needed unfortunately. If this summer is super warm in London then get prepared, it's going to get grim. With all the cuts and everyone's eye half on terrorism it could go very wrong. Notting hill carnival is guranteed trouble and a stabbing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Notting hill carnival is guranteed trouble and a stabbing You'd better back that statement up with a Levi Ramsey style data set or GTFOH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 10 hours ago, maqroll said: data set I think the minimum requirement is a "Data Model" of the basic data set you refer to piped straight into a published business intelligence platform that has a live feed into the met's live database with "StabbyMcStabby" algorithms grinding out the results so they can go onto Villa talk. I will send you the White Paper on it. It goes into great detail into how some people are just walking down the street but these people seem to be robbing and stabbing, shooting and looting and they are just are too bad, too bad. One of these days eh ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 Quote This week London has seen a wave of violence engulf the capital, most of which involved the tragic deaths of young people. https://www.indy100.com/article/london-violence-shooting-stabbing-deaths-murder-young-people-seema-chandwani-tanesha-melbourne-blake-8294596 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 1 hour ago, maqroll said: https://www.indy100.com/article/london-violence-shooting-stabbing-deaths-murder-young-people-seema-chandwani-tanesha-melbourne-blake-8294596 Quote Why we keep acting like this is a new thing is almost insane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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