The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[6065_Villa]

See VAR have already back tracked on the shit they came out with last week on the pen decision they made up.

Ipswich v 115 charges same tackle river and outcome.

Also that prick on ref watch talks absolute shit on a weekly basis.

 

[villa89]

All the talk was it will be better this season. It's still rubbish. Bin it. 

Automated offsides *should* work when it starts. 

[MrBlack]

31 minutes ago, villa89 said:

All the talk was it will be better this season. It's still rubbish. Bin it. 

Automated offsides *should* work when it starts. 

Should....it should at least be consistent, but who knows how they'll configure the cameras at all the grounds. It will still be shit because it's the FA and PGMOL implementing it.

[StefanAVFC]

2 hours ago, villa89 said:

All the talk was it will be better this season. It's still rubbish. Bin it. 

Automated offsides *should* work when it starts. 

It’s worse, as they’ve added in this ref’s call nonsense that hasn’t worked within 2 weeks of the season. 

[sne]

Handball situation in the Wolves- Nottingham game is iffy if not wrong. Again. The rule is whatever.

[bobzy]

I didn't realise that the semi-automated offsides weren't running yet...

 

...that offside decision against Leicester seems really weird.

[foreveryoung]

Not showing when the ball is kicked before the lines are drawn now for offsides,  because it obviously cannot be accurately seen. The new automated system making it look like something from the 90s. The tech we have these days and all this system can show is a blur 

[Hobsons Choice]

On 22/08/2024 at 21:38, KevinRichardsonsMoustache said:

Spare a thought for why this tackle in tonight's Conference League game involving TNS wasn't worthy of a red card, even after a VAR check:

Go to 1:30:44 for the tackle (sorry, can't embed video at the right time stamp)

How t.a.f is that not 3 reds simultaneously. 

[switters]

With that Duran one yesterday what bothers me particularly is that, say Duran instead of scoring had taken ball into box and got fouled and won a pen, would VAR have cared about the earlier handball? Or then it would only look at the penalty decision? 

That's what makes it such an arbitrary influence on the game. It doesn't intervene on some errors that give advantages which lead to goals (e.g. a wrongly given corner) but does on others (a handball happening 15 seconds back on the other side of pitch).

[rjw63]

1 hour ago, switters said:

With that Duran one yesterday what bothers me particularly is that, say Duran instead of scoring had taken ball into box and got fouled and won a pen, would VAR have cared about the earlier handball? Or then it would only look at the penalty decision? 

That's what makes it such an arbitrary influence on the game. It doesn't intervene on some errors that give advantages which lead to goals (e.g. a wrongly given corner) but does on others (a handball happening 15 seconds back on the other side of pitch).

I was listening to radio comms, and they said surely if Watkins goal gets disallowed for handball it should be a penalty, as the defender handled it first then it brushed on to Ollie?

VAR obviously incompetent across the globe.

[Lichfield Dean]

2 hours ago, switters said:

With that Duran one yesterday what bothers me particularly is that, say Duran instead of scoring had taken ball into box and got fouled and won a pen, would VAR have cared about the earlier handball? Or then it would only look at the penalty decision? 

That's what makes it such an arbitrary influence on the game. It doesn't intervene on some errors that give advantages which lead to goals (e.g. a wrongly given corner) but does on others (a handball happening 15 seconds back on the other side of pitch).

Thing is, I don't believe it was a mistake the ref made being corrected. It seemed to me he saw the handball, I mean he was pretty close to Onana, and he let play go on, obviously deciding it wasn't a free kick worthy incident. But then because it was a goal, it became a free kick worthy incident. Was it purely the fact it resulted (eventually) in a goal the only reason it was given? If so, that doesn't sit right with me. I genuinely don't believe the ref didn't see it in real time, so I don't believe he made a mistake, he made a decision.

Edited 17 hours ago by Lichfield Dean

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Lichfield Dean said:

Thing is, I don't believe it was a mistake the ref made being corrected. It seemed to me he saw the handball, I mean he was pretty close to Onana, and he let play go on, obviously deciding it wasn't a free kick worthy incident. But then because it was a goal, it became a free kick worthy incident. Was it purely the fact it resulted (eventually) in a goal the only reason it was given? If so, that doesn't sit right with me. I genuinely don't believe the ref didn't see it in real time, so I don't believe he made a mistake, he made a decision.

I don't really see the problem.

The ref might have seen it in real time and not thought it was a free kick, then when he was shown it again he realised he'd made a mistake.

Isn't that exactly what VAR SHOULD be there for?

 

I'm not sure why Villa fans are dying on this particular hill. It was absolutely the right decision in the end.

The Watkins one was one that actually looked like it might have been the wrong decision

Edited 16 hours ago by Stevo985

[BG_Villa_Fan]

It’s not that it’s the wrong decision by the ref. Was there handball? Yes, objectively there was, however, how much time before a goal is scored would that matter? Phases of play or whatever they call it. What if there are 15 passes after the handball? Or 5? Or 2? Passes forward, passes back, etc.

It’s all too vague and we know we’ll get the opposite subjective decision go against us, or against someone else, very soon. It’s the consistency, or lack thereof, that’s irritating.

[Davkaus]

5 hours ago, rjw63 said:

I was listening to radio comms, and they said surely if Watkins goal gets disallowed for handball it should be a penalty, as the defender handled it first then it brushed on to Ollie?

VAR obviously incompetent across the globe.

Nah, this isn't correct. The issue is that in the box, attackers and defenders are literally playing by a different rule.

A touch from a defender with the hand/arm needs to be deliberate, or an unnatural body shape, but from the attacking side to have the goal rules out, it just has to be a touch, even if it was completely unavoidable and miniscule.

I think one of the biggest sources of confusion among fans isn't just the rules, but the fact that people paid to talk about this sport on the TV and radio literally don't know the rules and misinform millions of listeners.

[rjw63]

49 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Nah, this isn't correct. The issue is that in the box, attackers and defenders are literally playing by a different rule.

A touch from a defender with the hand/arm needs to be deliberate, or an unnatural body shape, but from the attacking side to have the goal rules out, it just has to be a touch, even if it was completely unavoidable and miniscule.

I think one of the biggest sources of confusion among fans isn't just the rules, but the fact that people paid to talk about this sport on the TV and radio literally don't know the rules and misinform millions of listeners.

Not very **** fair is it?

[Ponky]

We had one go our way last season didn't we, where Cash handled the ball but it brushed the attacker's hand first so there was no penalty?

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, BG_Villa_Fan said:

It’s not that it’s the wrong decision by the ref. Was there handball? Yes, objectively there was, however, how much time before a goal is scored would that matter? Phases of play or whatever they call it. What if there are 15 passes after the handball? Or 5? Or 2? Passes forward, passes back, etc.

It’s all too vague and we know we’ll get the opposite subjective decision go against us, or against someone else, very soon. It’s the consistency, or lack thereof, that’s irritating.

I agree. But as I said before, however long that period is, 17 seconds and 5 passes is within it

There can be no argument that that handball by Onana wasn't in the build up to the goal.

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

Nah, this isn't correct. The issue is that in the box, attackers and defenders are literally playing by a different rule.

A touch from a defender with the hand/arm needs to be deliberate, or an unnatural body shape, but from the attacking side to have the goal rules out, it just has to be a touch, even if it was completely unavoidable and miniscule.

I think one of the biggest sources of confusion among fans isn't just the rules, but the fact that people paid to talk about this sport on the TV and radio literally don't know the rules and misinform millions of listeners.

from memory when they first introduced the rule it was based around the arm being the last part of the body to touch the ball before it went it, i actually thought it was another rule change based around villa, can you remember the west brom goal where jay rodriguez fell over and bundled it in with his arm? not deliberate but definitely hit his arm last, the rule was designed to stop that, then they changed it, then they changed it again, then again, and again...then VVD did it for liverpool in the build up to a goal vs city and they introduced phases...then changed it again, then again

and now no one knows what the **** is going on anymore

 

 

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

from memory when they first introduced the rule it was based around the arm being the last part of the body to touch the ball before it went it, i actually thought it was another rule change based around villa, can you remember the west brom goal where jay rodriguez fell over and bundled it in with his arm? not deliberate but definitely hit his arm last, the rule was designed to stop that, then they changed it, then they changed it again, then again, and again...then VVD did it for liverpool in the build up to a goal vs city and they introduced phases...then changed it again, then again

and now no one knows what the **** is going on anymore

 

I do feel like the powers that be really overreact and add in so much complexity based on knee-jerk reactions to individual high profile incidents as if they can just add enough clauses to the handball rule and offside rule it'll be perfect and everyone will stop complaining.

I've banged on about it a few times but I'd happily go back to first principles for offside especially now that the automated technology is there. Were you in an offside position in the opponent's half when the ball was played forward by your team? Sucks to be you, offside. Were you on the floor on the other side of the pitch, nowhere near the ball? Unlucky, pal. Offside. It's be absolute chaos for a week or two and then the players would adapt.

I'd also consider doing something similar for handball. Did it touch your hand or arm? **** it, handball, and a indirect free kick if it's in the box, unless it's a particularly egregious deliberate handball to stop the ball going in, which can be a pen. Some grayness there because you do need a way of punishing 'dogso' handballs, which will introduce subjectivity from the refs, but much less so, and there's just no need for it with offside.

Attacking phases, body shapes, deliberately playing the ball, sack it all off.

Edited 10 hours ago by Davkaus

[villa4europe]

11 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I do feel like the powers that be really overreact and add in so much complexity based on knee-jerk reactions to individual high profile incidents as if they can just add enough clauses to the handball rule and offside rule it'll be perfect and everyone will stop complaining.

I've banged on about it a few times but I'd happily go back to first principles for offside especially now that the automated technology is there. Were you in an offside position in the opponent's half when the ball was played forward by your team? Sucks to be you, offside. Were you on the floor on the other side of the pitch, nowhere near the ball? Unlucky, pal. Offside. It's be absolute chaos for a week or two and then the players would adapt.

I'd also consider doing something similar for handball. Did it touch your hand or arm? **** it, handball, and a indirect free kick if it's in the box, unless it's a particularly egregious deliberate handball to stop the ball going in, which can be a pen. Some grayness there because you do need a way of punishing 'dogso' handballs, which will introduce subjectivity from the refs, but much less so, and there's just no need for it with offside.

Attacking phases, body shapes, deliberately playing the ball, sack it all off.

100%

especially now we can see it week in week out, the line we hold is a skill, must take hours of training to drill it in to these guys (kw) and step up in unison at the perfect time - but PGMOL say its not offside because the ball went left rather than right? nah its bollocks, rules made by people who have no real understanding of what they're doing

i can see in my lifetime them trialing handball like a foot in hockey