The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[tomav84]

21 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Sadly VAR needs to be a fully automated thing taken away from humans. No idea when/if that's possible, but it will forever be contentious until that point. Human error will always exist. 

i thought offsides were semi automated in the CL now anyway?

[Davkaus]

There's too much ambiguity and interpretation to football laws to fully automate almost any decisions. Boundary calls are possibly the sole exception. Offside can be semi automated but will still need human review (a computer isn't interpreting what is and isn't interfering with play, or what counts as a deliberate attempt to play the ball)

Edited October 27, 2022 by Davkaus

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

It is the official that gets it wrong. He just has a chance to view a replay. 

but Dem is right

we used to have a system where the pitch ref was poor and was making mistakes

we now have a system where the pitch ref is poor and making mistakes which is then being referred to a video ref who is equally poor and making mistakes 

what progress or betterment has actually been made?

[Davkaus]

I think we're seeing more correct calls than before, because there's the odd howler overturned, and my feeling (though no stats or evidence to support it) is that there are very few blunders by VAR *introducing* the wrong decision (as opposed to backing up the ref's erroneous decision).

I still think it's to the detriment of the game though, and it's not fixing enough problems to make the downsides worth it.

[bannedfromHandV]

5 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

but Dem is right

we used to have a system where the pitch ref was poor and was making mistakes

we now have a system where the pitch ref is poor and making mistakes which is then being referred to a video ref who is equally poor and making mistakes 

what progress or betterment has actually been made?

Next to none at all in my view.

And on the flip side it’s killed some of the emotion of the game.

Worst introduction to football ever.

[Stevo985]

7 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

but Dem is right

we used to have a system where the pitch ref was poor and was making mistakes

we now have a system where the pitch ref is poor and making mistakes which is then being referred to a video ref who is equally poor and making mistakes 

what progress or betterment has actually been made?

Yeah this.

It shouldn't be like this. For all the faults of VAR, the very least it should be achieving is lessening the number of mistakes being made by referees, even if that's at the cost of losing some of the flow of the game and some of the emotion. But it's not. Whatever **** up way they're implementing it, it's not working

Edited October 27, 2022 by Stevo985

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

 

And on the flip side it’s killed some of the emotion of the game.

 

Judging by crowds still mostly going crazy, I'm probably in the vast minority, but my reaction to almost any goal is now "Right, here we **** go" instead of euphoria.

[StefanAVFC]

They're making the same amount of mistakes, but they're having the chance to review and still making the same mistakes. Add to that, the confusing rules and constant changes and it's broken. Worse than it was.

[villa4europe]

i think as much as anything what it's doing is showing that there is a growing distance between what fans actually want in football compared to the rule makers

by and large we no longer want VAR, we dont want this offside rule and we dont want this handball rule but then sensible rules like a concussion protocol and things that would benefit fans enjoyment of the game like stopping time wasting are ignored, what PGMOL are doing is baffling because i genuinely dont know who is asking for what they introduce

more than anything i think we just want competency and consistency and VAR doesnt achieve either of those

[bannedfromHandV]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

Judging by crowds still mostly going crazy, I'm probably in the vast minority, but my reaction to almost any goal is now "Right, here we **** go" instead of euphoria.

Yeah 100%. Even if someone belts in a 30 yard screamer now my first instinct is to wonder what minor indiscretion they’ll find to chalk it off.

It’s just a farce, it really is. Football isn’t meant to be clinical in the application of the rules, the rules are there to ensure a a degree of fairness and structure. Referees should be largely anonymous and yet they’re often now crucial to the outcome of a match - it’s given them a much bigger platform than they ever deserved.

[tomav84]

10 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I think we're seeing more correct calls than before, because there's the odd howler overturned, and my feeling (though no stats or evidence to support it) is that there are very few blunders by VAR *introducing* the wrong decision (as opposed to backing up the ref's erroneous decision).

I still think it's to the detriment of the game though, and it's not fixing enough problems to make the downsides worth it.

i disagree with this. we frequently see VAR refer the ref to the screen when the on field decision was correct. there was one in the city v brighton game last sunday, for example where bernardo outstretches his foot and just kicks the defender, goes down, ref didn't give it but VAR told the ref to look at the screen

[villa4europe]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Yeah 100%. Even if someone belts in a 30 yard screamer now my first instinct is to wonder what minor indiscretion they’ll find to chalk it off.

It’s just a farce, it really is. Football isn’t meant to be clinical in the application of the rules, the rules are there to ensure a a degree of fairness and structure. Referees should be largely anonymous and yet they’re often now crucial to the outcome of a match - it’s given them a much bigger platform than they ever deserved.

they are a big part of the entertainment product that the PL now is

it's not talked about by the media but the refs and these decisions are generating drama which in turn can generate excitement which then provides the PL with a more watchable product for their global audience, they talk a good game but I'm not convinced that the PL actually wants things to get better, all this bullshit is not detrimental to them and the money

[tomav84]

9 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Judging by crowds still mostly going crazy, I'm probably in the vast minority, but my reaction to almost any goal is now "Right, here we **** go" instead of euphoria.

genuine question, why don't you just celebrate? i nearly carried my mate down 3 rows for ings' 2nd on sunday.

i'm as critical of VAR as everyone else, but i've never understood this "we can't celebrate until the goal is officially given" mentality

[Davkaus]

Just now, tomav84 said:

genuine question, why don't you just celebrate? i nearly carried my mate down 3 rows for ings' 2nd on sunday.

i'm as critical of VAR as everyone else, but i've never understood this "we can't celebrate until the goal is officially given" mentality

It's not a conscious decision, I've just been hurt too many times  

[Mantis]

5 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

genuine question, why don't you just celebrate? i nearly carried my mate down 3 rows for ings' 2nd on sunday.

i'm as critical of VAR as everyone else, but i've never understood this "we can't celebrate until the goal is officially given" mentality

I think it's an instinctive thing. When goals are scored now people expert VAR to find some reason to chalk them off. Whereas before if a goal was scored you'd have basically 100% certainty that it would stand.

[AndyM3000]

5 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

It's not a conscious decision, I've just been hurt too many times  

I feel the same way, it must be dreadful for matchday fans. I remember when we scored in the cup against Utd I didn't even celebrate, I knew they'd find something to rule it out. Offside, handball, eventually they found a foul. Only so many times this can happen before you instinctively don't celebrate anymore.

It's happened so many times I've looked over the laws of the game a lot. I knew that West Ham goal would stand and that Kane was offside, I'm surprised how much uproar there is over it, if you have come back from an offside position to get the ball it's still offside even if the ball has been played backwards. The Rashford one the other week against Everton that was ruled out due to it hitting his arm, if he squared that for someone else to tap in it would have stood. 

[tomav84]

14 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said:

I feel the same way, it must be dreadful for matchday fans. I remember when we scored in the cup against Utd I didn't even celebrate, I knew they'd find something to rule it out. Offside, handball, eventually they found a foul. Only so many times this can happen before you instinctively don't celebrate anymore.

It's happened so many times I've looked over the laws of the game a lot. I knew that West Ham goal would stand and that Kane was offside, I'm surprised how much uproar there is over it, if you have come back from an offside position to get the ball it's still offside even if the ball has been played backwards. The Rashford one the other week against Everton that was ruled out due to it hitting his arm, if he squared that for someone else to tap in it would have stood. 

it only is if you let it

i still go mad when we score, and people around me sunday were all exactly the same

so what if it later gets disallowed? the away fans go "wahaaay" and you look a little bit silly. is that enough reason not to celebrate?

each to his own i guess

[meregreen]

VAR is supposed to be used for “ clear and obvious errors” . No way should a clear and obvious error take as long to evaluate as last nights did at Tottenham. The system is being used by nitpickers to the detriment of the game. It’s absolutely ruining the joy of scoring. Whatever perceived benefits VAR allegedly brings, the downside is too high a price to pay.

[villa4europe]

38 minutes ago, meregreen said:

VAR is supposed to be used for “ clear and obvious errors” . No way should a clear and obvious error take as long to evaluate as last nights did at Tottenham. The system is being used by nitpickers to the detriment of the game. It’s absolutely ruining the joy of scoring. Whatever perceived benefits VAR allegedly brings, the downside is too high a price to pay.

"clear and obvious" was jargon cooked up by the marketing department to reassure fans VAR wouldnt ruin games whilst also giving PGMOL wiggle room in bad decisions

if you look at the writing of the rules for clear and obvious, handball and offside all of them have wiggle room to protect the ref

[tinker]

VAR doesn't change crap decisions , it makes the chances of them happening less but a crap ref is a crap ref even when he's or she's watching it on TV.

VAR should stay it just needs better standards to interpretate the rules. How Doug got sent off is still a mystery that should be explained by the decision makers .