Vive_La_Villa Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, tomav84 said: the same taylor who also apparently never leaves his own half... Ha! The Irony. I do think Taylor is shit going forward though. Although he has looked pretty solid last 2 games to be fair. He looks better in this league than the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 7 hours ago, villalad21 said: Parts of me hope Targett and Guilbert will both play soon so we can get this idea about them being a "revelation" for us out of the board. I'm so sick and tired of Elmo and Taylor not getting the praise they deserve for playing very well. Could you please quote where someone said they would be a revelation? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Could you please quote where someone said they would be a revelation? Thanks. Don't feed trolls man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 8 hours ago, useless said: I doubt we would have paid £11.5M potentially rising to £17m for Targett just to be an understudy to Taylor either. Yet Southampton were happy to have this same 11.5/17 m player as back up, until they sold him to us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, terrytini said: Yet Southampton were happy to have this same 11.5/17 m player as back up, until they sold him to us.... They have a much better starting left back, but you know that and I know you know because you did a smiley face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 8 hours ago, useless said: I doubt we would have paid £11.5M potentially rising to £17m for Targett just to be an understudy to Taylor either. That's the price for squad players in today's market. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, praisedmambo said: They have a much better starting left back, but you know that and I know you know because you did a smiley face. They do, but I was just making the point that lots of millions sounds lots but it’s just the going rate for players seen as squad players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Outside of the six or four clubs you won't find many teams with a reserve left-back that costs up to £17m. Not sure why anyone would think that we signed Targett to be back up to Taylor, Targett wouldn't have even joined us if that was the case, he'd have just stayed at Southampton, where he actually got a lot of game time. Unless Taylor has an unexpected exceptionally good season and dropping him becomes unthinkable, Targett will be eased into the starting eleven, and will eventuall become our first choice left-back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Southampton were happy to have him as back up because they had Ryan Bertrand as first choice, and Targett didn't cost them £11.5m, he was a product of their academy. Besides Targett played nearly as much football for Southampton last season as Bertrand did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted August 20, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 20, 2019 Must say I don't enjoy opening this thread at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, useless said: Outside of the six or four clubs you won't find many teams with a reserve left-back that costs up to £17m. Targett will be eased into the starting eleven, and will eventuall become our first choice left-back. Not many clubs have had to do a rebuild like we have this summer. Prices have gone up recently with more money in the game. Agreed, but it may be a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) That we had a lot of rebuilding that we had to do in the summer makes it all the more unlikely that we would be spending £11m rising to £17m on a back up left-back. Edited August 20, 2019 by useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) On 19/08/2019 at 18:58, LakotaDakota said: He is in the top 10 of the whole league for accurate crosses & key passes per game, Defensively he is top 25-50 on tackles,interceptions & clearances whilst having fewer fouls than most. His stats against bournemouth were better than just about every other player in the league for pass accuracy & chances created. Not his fault our forward line consists of people who are good at falling over and you wouldn't put money on them scoring if you put the ball on the goalline and gave them a 5 yard run up. sure Gulibert might be able to run a bit faster but i honestly can't seem him doing anything else significantly better than elmo And how many of Elmo passes were forwards quick and relieving pressure ? I can guess less than 1 in 8 ? You cant obviously play every pass forwards or quickly but if you look at Bournemouth, they managed it. 3 quick passes in the floor and they were within shooting distance, they did that throughout the entire game as the defense moved the ball quickly. Taylor more so but both play the safety first game 80% of the time which means when we have possession, 80% of the time it will be a slow build up. With the new rule of playing from a goal kick, now more than ever we should be using the quicker playing and thinking players. I can see taylor being replaced before Elmo due to the support Elmo gives the attack over taylor but unless trez is going to be a superstar I cant see us damaging teams with great effect with the fullbacks as they are. It's about getting the playing system working as best it can and as mentioned several times, defensively both fullbacks have done their primary defense duties perfectly well, as reactionary players rather than proactive players. The system requires proactive players in each position. Edited August 20, 2019 by brummybloke 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Had a look at Elmo stats over 2 matches vs all defenders in the league. - 11th most opposition half passes (39) 95% successful - =23rd 14 final third passes (14) 100% successful - =1st most successful crosses 4/11 =6th most attempted - =1st most chances created (5) - =2nd most recoveries (19) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: Had a look at Elmo stats over 2 matches vs all defenders in the league. - 11th most opposition half passes (39) 95% successful - =23rd 14 final third passes (14) 100% successful - =1st most successful crosses 4/11 =6th most attempted - =1st most chances created (5) - =2nd most recoveries (19) yet none of that matters to some because Gulibert ran around quite quickly in 3 halves of friendly football against league 1 opponents. I'm all for giving guilbert a chance but like it or nor Elmo is actually creating plenty of chances (arguably more than our apparently creative midfielders) for our non existent forward line whilst still doing a job at the back. The more dynamic defenders/wingbacks in the league are not creating the same amount of chances as Elmo, the difference is that they have people to get on the end of them & put them in the net Edited August 21, 2019 by LakotaDakota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, LakotaDakota said: yet none of that matters to some because Gulibert ran around quite quickly in 3 halves of friendly football against league 1 opponents. I'm all for giving guilbert a chance but like it or nor Elmo is actually creating plenty of chances (arguably more than our apparently creative midfielders) for our non existent forward line whilst still doing a job at the back. The more dynamic defenders/wingbacks in the league are not creating the same amount of chances as Elmo, the difference is that they have people to get on the end of them & put them in the net You have to remember that Guilbert is a new player and got a fancyer name which automatically makes him better. Good old Villatalk logic. Just let us wait till Guilbert finally get's his chance. I'm sure he will tear defenders apart and create 5+ chances is every game. Edited August 21, 2019 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 19 hours ago, useless said: Outside of the six or four clubs you won't find many teams with a reserve left-back that costs up to £17m. Not sure why anyone would think that we signed Targett to be back up to Taylor, Targett wouldn't have even joined us if that was the case, he'd have just stayed at Southampton, where he actually got a lot of game time. Unless Taylor has an unexpected exceptionally good season and dropping him becomes unthinkable, Targett will be eased into the starting eleven, and will eventuall become our first choice left-back. The "up to" is entirely dependent on him breaking into the first team, so a bit misleading to phrase it like that. I think we learnt last season that Dean Smith doesn't really think in terms of "first team" and "backup" players. We saw with Whelan vs. Hourihane, Elmo vs. Hutton, Hause vs. Taylor, Adomah vs. Kodjia vs. Green, etc. So it's quite possible that we've spent whatever we spent on Targett (£14m?) without any guarantee that he'll have a place in the starting 11 every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Most teams outside of the top six won't have a left-back that costs £11m never mind £17m, and certainly not any of the promoted teams. We also had to spread our transfer budget out very thinley as we needed to sign a lot of players, so no way we'd be paying as much as we did for Targett with the intention of him being a bench player, if we really thought Taylor was good enough for the first team we would have gone for a cheaper left-back to sit on the bench, and spent the money elsewhere. Of Course Taylor might perform in such a manner that he becomes undroppable, but I've not doubt whatsoever that when Targett was signed it was with a view to him being our first choice left-back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I think Guilbert is a good right back a bit more aggressive, quicker and better defending in one on one situations. I also think he is more likely to overlap and has better link up play. Suits playing behind Jota better than Elmo. Elmo on the other hand is better aerially and has good delivery from crosses. So if I was the start with Jota on the right I'd go Guilbert in behind and otherwise Elmo. Currently Smith will probably keep Elmo and Taylor at fullback while we are bedding in Engels and Heaton. Probably after the international break Smith will look at bringing in our promising young fullbacks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Not sure what's so remarkable about those stats...he made a lot of passes and a lot of crosses. We all saw that. It was a decent performance and I haven't seen anyone in here claim otherwise. @Philosopher's post above pretty much sums up what everyone is saying Bournemouth were more than happy to let him cross and even just let us build up from the right. It was all slow and in front of them, just how they would have wanted it. That just doesn't really fly in the PL anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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