chrisp65 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 5 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Is there any suggestion that those closed stations would have saved a single life in this disaster? No, this was a contribution to the theory of how we would cope with a long hot summer of upset people. It was no reflection of the response to this fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted June 15, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Davkaus said: In fairness, fires and deaths from fires are at pretty much an all time low in England, aren't they? And fire engines were on the scene in 6 minutes. Is there any suggestion that those closed stations would have saved a single life in this disaster? I saw it reported last night that for the first time in years the balance had tipped the other way and that fatalities from fires had increased over the past year. Also that fire prevention talks etc from the fire brigade were also in rapid decline. As with any public service there is a tipping point to where cuts start to impact on safety and welfare of the public and we have now gone past that point and can see that in the NHS, Police, fire service and things such as social care. A few chickens have come home to roost all at once for the Tories and many who seemed oblivious to what was happening are now waking up to what the Tories have done. They want crucifying. Edited June 15, 2017 by markavfc40 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 23 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: I saw it reported last night that for the first time in years the balance had tipped the other way and that fatalities from fires had increased over the past year. Also that fire prevention talks etc from the fire brigade were also in rapid decline. As with any public service there is a tipping point to where cuts start to impact on safety and welfare of the public and we have now gone past that point and can see that in the NHS, Police, fire service and things such as social care. A few chickens have come home to roost all at once for the Tories and many who seemed oblivious to what was happening are now waking up to what the Tories have done. They want crucifying. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, TrentVilla said: I honestly think the death toll is being down played to stop riots. A couple of weeks back the government forced the media to play nice when it came to reporting on the Manchester attack. Are the same rules being put into place now? Are the media allowed to disclose if they have been compelled by law to "edit" their reporting? Remember, this is the same government that retroactively legalized criminal spying and associated endeavors of government agencies. The same government who's agents marched into a media organization and threatened all sorts to destroy material evidence of criminal behavior. Not to mention their recent burying of the Saudi report. Please picture this fire as having happened in Beijing, and a similar lack of information being available. Maybe I'm being a little paranoid, maybe... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Genie said: The policing of any riots needs to be EXTREMELY carefully managed too Rioting is about just wanting to commit opportunistic crime and looting which tends to descend down from what the initial demonstration/protest was about, which was probably about a valid concern. It's a tightrope to police but rioters have to be dealt with hard. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted June 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2017 52 minutes ago, Davkaus said: In fairness, fires and deaths from fires are at pretty much an all time low in England, aren't they? And fire engines were on the scene in 6 minutes. Is there any suggestion that those closed stations would have saved a single life in this disaster? Not necessarily. It would've saved a large proportion of those firefighters from having to endure 12 hour shifts instead of the recommended 4 hours though. There's got to be a butterfly effect somewhere in the chain. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Tories keep praising the hard work and skills of the emergency services and public sector jobs like nurses, police, fire workers, police etc.. in situations like this. But we only deserve a 5 year pay freeze followed by a paltry 1% pay rise while they got an 11% pay rise was it a few years ago? **** off Tory scum. Bad news for anyone who isn't in the elite or a global corporation with shares to sell. Tragedies like this hopefully will wake the working class up a bit. Edited June 15, 2017 by Ingram85 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 15, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: Tories keep praising the hard work and skills of the emergency services and public sector jobs like nurses, police, fire workers, police etc.. in situations like this. But we only deserve a 5 year pay freeze followed by a paltry 1% pay rise while they got a 11% pay rise was it a few years ago? **** off Tory scum. Bad news for anyone who isn't in the elite or a global corporation with shares to sell. Tragedies like this hopefully will wake the working class up a bit. They went up 1.4% in April just 2 years after the 10% rise. Seems reasonable. To be fair though, it wasn't just the Tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, Xela said: Rioting is about just wanting to commit opportunistic crime and looting which tends to descend down from what the initial demonstration/protest was about, which was probably about a valid concern. It's a tightrope to police but rioters have to be dealt with hard. I was in London the night the police ran away, what I saw wasn't protests for social justice ('cos a drug dealer got shot), it was a bunch of low life scumbags looting the businesses of decent people. Protests good, protests as cover for a crime spree not good. If they ever pull that crap again I hope the rubber bullets come out, that'll learn 'em. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 55 minutes ago, Genie said: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/presenter-jon-snow-confronted-angry-mob-grenfell-tower-coverage/ As @Awol posted on page 1 there was a Grenfell action group which has been campaigning about their concerns about fire safety. https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/ It seems likely that they approached Channel 4 and were told to do one. For Channel 4 News to turn up and exploit the results of something in which they were complicit, would seem worthy of people's anger. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Genie said: Big City Riots mk2? I make it at least mk 4 or 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 It's a bit like the trains, London underground and football stadiums. Even the Manchester plane disaster on the tarmac initiated real and permanent changes in safety all over the world. All got sorted after a lot death's in the 80 and 90's. On reflection I must say these seems a very, very way odd to approach this. Just get someone to point at stuff, "that a bit shit to be honest, fix it now or you are not allowed to use it, bye". I have gone into a bit to far too much detail there I know but surely it is cheaper in the long run to prevent things or am I just not getting something ? Is there a ministry of Safety ? And then check over your investment at regular intervals that without deem the enterprise non-usable. Best to check it becasue you really will and anyone to do wit hit end up in prison on a new charge for this sort of thing as its between manslaughter and murder in my book, like between a sheep and a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 15, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: As @Awol posted on page 1 there was a Grenfell action group which has been campaigning about their concerns about fire safety. https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/ It seems likely that they approached Channel 4 and were told to do one. For Channel 4 News to turn up and exploit the results of something in which they were complicit, would seem worthy of people's anger. I was in complete agreement until you said complicit, they weren't complicit they just didn't listen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 22 minutes ago, Awol said: I was in London the night the police ran away, what I saw wasn't protests for social justice ('cos a drug dealer got shot), it was a bunch of low life scumbags looting the businesses of decent people. Protests good, protests as cover for a crime spree not good. To be fair you could probably apply that to every serious breakdown in social order ever. I imagine such things (and that we 'need to come down on them hard') were said after Peterloo (that's to contrast rather than compare the actual events of a couple of years ago with those of Manchester two centuries ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 15, 2017 This should get a few VTers spluttering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I live east but have friends who work in West that have been down helping out with donations on lunch and after work. Some of the stories I've heard are absolutely heartbreaking, I won't share as it's not the time or place to tell of other people's lives but it is more horrific than you could imagine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, mjmooney said: This should get a few VTers spluttering... As if what they have already suffered wasn't enough 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Thought I should say that after the last couple of pages, the mood among the community there is one of greif and togetherness at this time, everyone is offering help in whatever way possible. I'm not saying there won't be an angry response but their concerns at the moment are purely focused on helping those affected 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 2 hours ago, TrentVilla said: I honestly think the death toll is being down played to stop riots. Akala pretty much said this today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I do feel a little sorry for the new Minister for Housing (Alok Sharma). Perhaps questions need to be asked of the previous Minister for Housing: I wonder whether anyone knows where he could be found? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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