General Election 2017

[darrenm]

20 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I'm sorry but you aren't making the slightest bit of sense here.

We're in a politics thread where people are posting their opinions (amongst other things) on politics (including the leader of the Labour party).

You're saying that they're irrelevant because they're subjective? What are we all doing here, then?

I've written a reply out about 10 times and deleted it in an attempt to get it watertight and I can't so perhaps I'm wrong. Never mind.

[snowychap]

28 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

You're quite right, but I think in context it's worth noting that our subjective personal opinions on politicians are rarely without influence from external sources.

I'd say never. That doesn't make them irrelevant.

Edited May 13, 2017 by snowychap

[mjmooney]

Reposted from my FB feed: 

Spoiler

A view from outside:

*Originally by Jonas Fossli Gjersø

As a Scandinavian who had spent more than a decade living in Britain, nothing had made me feel more foreign than observing the current labour (and now general election) leadership election.
From his style to his policies Mr Corbyn would, in Norway, be an unremarkably mainstream, run of the mill social-democrat.  His policy-platform places him squarely in the Norwegian Labour Party from which the last leader is such a widely respected establishment figure that he became the current Secretary-General of NATO.

Yet, here in The United Kingdom a politician who makes similar policy proposals, indeed those that form the very bedrock of the Nordic-model, is brandished as an extremist of the hard left and a danger to society.

So who is right? Is the Norwegian Labour movement some dangerous extremist group that unknowingly has occupied the furthest leftist fringe of the political Spectrum?
If so, a casual glance at the UN's Human Development Index would suggest that Norway certainly had not suffered as a result of successive Labour-dominated governments. Or is it, perhaps, that the British media are somewhat exaggerated and verging on the realm of character assassination rather than objective analysis and journalism?

 

[blandy]

19 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

You're quite right, but I think in context it's worth noting that our subjective personal opinions on politicians are rarely without influence from external sources.

Definitely. That goes for all our opinions on everything. And so they should be. It's not something sinister. We're all influenced by all sorts of information, people, experiences, advertising, factual news and all the rest of it, as well as in the short term by which side we got out of bed, or if we're hungry/tired/hungover...

That said, the kind of agglomeration of millions of people's opinions is about as indicative as we can get of the absolute state of things. It's not perfect, not by a long way.

It's baffling to me, as my subjective opinion is different, but if you take, say the T.May, the apparent broad opinion of her in the UK is that she's a good leader. She's certainly seen as a better leader than Corbyn. I think she's smart, I suppose. She's wangled her way to the top of the tory tree, she's snaffled up voters from other parties, she's got a united party pretty much completely under her control. She puts out a message of essentially "no more nasty party" (contrary to all the actual facts on the ground) and people seem to believe she's genuine and "standing up for Britain".

The contrast with Corbyn is interesting - he's very popular with people who have a particular world view and unpopular with everyone else.  I probably really like about half of his/Labours policies, which isn't a bad hit rate, but there's a part of the mind set of a large number of his supporters (generally, I mean, not specific to VT) which I absolutely loathe, which I think is basically dangerous and nasty. So there's a kind of conflict - plenty of good ideas, a number of good policies...and a sort of dark side which is too big to ignore. I think there's a kind of mentality in that part of Labour which says "this is our world view" and anything that doesn't fit with, that contradicts that world view is ignored and anyone raising those things is attacked and denigrated in a particularly nasty way for raising it. That kind of behaviour isn't restricted to Corbynites, it's the same with, say, Trump in America, and with the UKIPs and I suppose to the Tory press in particular and the tory right. I think it's indicative of unsuitability to be anywhere near government or control or influence. The leaders of these things (with the exception of Trump and Farage) tend to leave it to others to do the actual dirty work and just turn a blind eye, themselves, whilst silently approving. Whether it's Murdoch or Dacre, Corbyn or May, these people are deeply unpleasant in what goes on in their names and their "causes".

Sorry, seem to have gone off on a tangent.

[Davkaus]

One step closer to nurses going on strike, they've voted massively in favour of a ballot to strike

There was a piece in the Guardian today about how 1 in 9 nurse positions are now vacant. How can we fill those? Well, clearly we cap pay rises to 1%, slash training subsidies, and in the next few years, stop foreigners coming over here, taking our jobs.  

Formal strike action is going to bring the NHS to its knees. Even working to rule would cause huge problems, the amount of unpaid overtime they put in is ridiculous. They deserve our support though, even if it's short term pain. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by Davkaus

[Davkaus]

It's amazing what words removed the tories have in their rank and file, away from the limelight. Strong and stable government? They're not even mentally stable. 

This chap last night:

 

This guy telling a Scottish teenager that she should "**** off back to Scotland" because she said she'd vote for independence

Quote

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/why-dont-you-f-back-10417461

'Why don’t you f*** off back to Scotland': Tory MP blasts schoolgirl wanting Scottish independence

James Heappey, 36, fighting to stay MP for Wells, Somerset, has apologised, insisting he was joking

 

 

This lunatic who thinks she cured **** deafness by praying.

 

Quote

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-mp-candidate-kristy-adams-christian-healed-deaf-man-prayer-a7721621.html

A Conservative party candidate has reportedly claimed she healed a deaf man with her bare hands by channelling the power of prayer. 

Kristy Adams, who is standing to be MP for Hove and Portslade, said she healed the man by placing her hands over his ears and saying: “Be healed in Jesus' name.”

When she removed her hands from his ears, he could miraculously hear without hearing aids, the former councillor reportedly told the King’s Arms Church in Bedford in 2010.

 

 

Then we have the clown in chief, a prime minister who supported remain, claiming that God would have voted leave. A prime minister with a moral objection to me cracking one off to hardcore porn, but who enjoys foxes being chased by 30 toffs on horseback. Curious definition of morality, that.

 

Edited May 14, 2017 by Davkaus

[blandy]

4 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

God would have voted leave

It's alright for him, though, what with being Omnipresent and everything. The rest of us can't go and work in that Europe anymore because of Brexits. Self self self, that's all you get from these ruddy deities.

[mikeyp102]

So I'll admit I don't follow politics that much. Did a couple of those quizzes to see which way to vote. Both came up the same so I suppose they work.

[darrenm]

28 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

So I'll admit I don't follow politics that much. Did a couple of those quizzes to see which way to vote. Both came up the same so I suppose they work.

Care to share the results?

[chrisp65]

23 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Care to share the results?

never encourage a tease...unless you are performing a devious counter tease, in which case, crack on

[mikeyp102]

30 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Care to share the results?

Nope, always keep my opinions to myself on these matters.

[mikeyp102]

5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

never encourage a tease...unless you are performing a devious counter tease, in which case, crack on

Not teasing, just stating, others may find these quizzes useful if they are undecided.

[snowychap]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

This chap last night

He's since binned his twitter account and been suspended by the local Tory group for 6 months:

Quote

A councillor has been suspended after an offensive tweet about Irish people and gypsies appeared on his account during the Eurovision Song Contest.

Nick Harrington has been suspended from the Conservatives on Warwick District Council for six months, the leader of the group told the Telegraph today.

...

He also volunteers as a magistrate...

Edit: Unfortunately,

Quote

Insp Russell Barker, of Warwickshire Police, confirmed police were investigating and treating it as a suspected hate crime.

Edited May 14, 2017 by snowychap

[darrenm]

45 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

Nope, always keep my opinions to myself on these matters.

No probs. Was just interested.

[PompeyVillan]

7 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

Not teasing, just stating, others may find these quizzes useful if they are undecided.

Sorry mate, not picking on you. But those "quizzes" are horrendous.

And to make your mind up on the basis of someone elses subjective definition of politics is... Erm...

It's okay to not be turned on by politics, but please take a few hours to find out about current, relevant policy pledges. Look at the opposition objectively and see what bits you like as well as dislike. 

Look up your local candidates, because they are the one's representing you in parliament, voting on your behalf. Should you ever have an issue you need your MP to look into, you'll want someone that cares about the same things as you. your local MP is only a phonecall away, I've spoken to mine about the NHS. He knows how I feel. 

Manifestos should be released tomorrow/this week. Avoid the tabloids of all persuasions because all they want to do is induce outrage. 

And by all means take a view on the leaders but remember they have changed in recent years (Blair - Brown, Cameron - May). 

 

Edited May 14, 2017 by PompeyVillan

[Xela]

3 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

Manifestos should be released tomorrow/this week. Avoid the tabloids of all persuasions because all they want to finish induce outrage. 

On this, and i'm not asking you direct, just anyone really, but what is the general conversion rate of any parties manifestos when they get in? It's easy to list a load of things you want to do, but how many actually get done? 

[darrenm]

It's funny but scarily accurate

 

[chrisp65]

A quiz certainly wouldn't tell me if the local candidate that is supposed to represent me is a cretin or a crook.

 

Q1: Do you like the idea of a blood ceremony where you use a pack of dogs to rip up a fox then smear the blood on your face to become part of a geriatric gang that want to live away from the hoi polloi, ideally in 1955, but then moan about broadband signal and bus services to the day centre and the foreign people that work in the day centre and the price of british apples out of season?

No: vote absolutely anything other than tory / kipper

Yes: don't forget to vote on June 9th, you sociopath

[PompeyVillan]

13 minutes ago, darrenm said:

It's funny but scarily accurate

 

I don't like any comparisons of Conservatives to Nazis, even if in jest.

Firstly, it's totally inaccurate. Secondly it only serves to discredit any criticism of them as extreme and far fetched.

 

 

[darrenm]

13 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

I don't like any comparisons of Conservatives to Nazis, even if in jest.

Firstly, it's totally inaccurate. Secondly it only serves to discredit any criticism of them as extreme and far fetched.

 

 

I'm confused. It's satire, it's not meant to be taken that seriously.

And this clip is used for many, many things. It's never comparing the source to Nazis. It just so happens that the source on this occasion is from the same side of the political spectrum.

Or have I missed a joke here?