General Election 2017

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

I am not going to defend the state of the NHS it is a mess, but a lot of it is because the population is getting bigger. The thing that irritates me is the closure of all these hospitals, but its the cost that is making this happy. I believe that Tories AND labour want it privatized as it costs too much money to run. 

I can only speak for my situation, but under labour i struggled to find a job. It was bloody difficult. Labour made (and still is wasting money in my local area on crap) for example round my area the IDIOTS decided to make bicycles lanes all through our town centers, thats caused significant amounts of traffic, reduced parking and now alot of businesses are struggling as no one is going to them because there is no where to park. (oh by the way the few cyclists that do cycle here are not even using the lanes they still use the roads) the genius of our labour ran council.

Its diffciult for me to comment regarding food banks as round my local area no one has the need for them as most are employed (and I live in london one of the most expensive places in the country to live) its not perfect, can be far better but at least there are jobs for people unlike under the period I stated before. My personal circumstances were poorer under labour than they are now (and thats with a freeze on my wages for being NHS staff) 

 

Privatising the NHS won’t make it cheaper for the taxpayer it will just mean a few people will get to make a shit load of money out of it and the service provided will deteriorate further for all but those who can afford to pay for their treatment.

Wasn’t it Boris Johnson who was big on bikes being used in London? In fairness if you want to get people using bikes you need to put the infrastructure in place to encourage it

I am surprised living in London which has a large number of homeless people and poor, both working and out of work, that you don’t think food banks are an issue round by you but obviously it could be dependent on where you live exactly and how much interest you take in people who may be worse off than yourself and struggling to the point of needing to use food banks.

There are more people in work that is true. There are also far more working poor since 2010 as well so it is safe to assume many of those jobs won’t be paying too well. There has also been a huge increase in zero hours contracts.

You know what though mate I am glad things are better for you. My personal situation due solely to ridiculously low interest rates, which almost certainly won’t last, means my situation has probably stayed about the same in terms of pennies in my pocket. I don’t see the world as just about me and mine though. I am concerned about the disabled guy losing his benefits, the elderly people who have lost social care provision and are either struggling abandoned at home or stuck in a hospital bed, the levels of debt students are getting themselves into, the underfunding of our education system and the cutting of teachers and rising class numbers, the generally dire state of our public services and the culture of pointing the finger at foreigners, disabled and those out of works for any woes.

I am not saying you are doing this but living simply in the here and now and thinking solely of you and yours is a very short sighted and selfish game. I think that is what too many of us are doing though. Me personally I’d rather be worse off and know that those less fortunate than me are getting the help they need and those reliant on public services are getting a good level of service and on a more selfish level that when me or mine become ill and/or need help with care etc. that there will be good provisions in place and that if I ever hit upon hard times and need help from the state it will be there for me.

Edited May 11, 2017 by markavfc40

[hippo]

32 minutes ago, jon_c said:

From what i've been told.  If a doctor writes on a prescription, to simplify it, say Nurofen, this is what must be given. But Nurofen costs say £4 a pack, but it is Ibuprofen. Unbranded Ibuprofen costs 26p a pack. Drugs companies at my dad's practice for example used to take all the Doctors once a month to a swanky restaurant all expense paid to encourage them to do this sort of thing. 

Then there are similar deals with contracts, where the NHS pays say £80 to a contracted supplier for the flu vaccine, where you can get it from other companies for say £10. 

It needs to be changed. Otherwise we're never going to be able to afford to run our health care system. 

Where I work -(NHS) If you receive or are offered  an incentive over £25 - you have to declare it - and can't accept stuff over this amount.

Where I work we have a contracts team that handle larger contracts - and I would have thought NHS england would handle large drugs contracts. Sure if what you say it true it is abuse of the system and abuse of power - is it unique to the NHS though ?  - Ive seen similar deals \ stories in the private sector.

 

[Xann]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

I am not going to defend the state of the NHS it is a mess, but a lot of it is because the population is getting bigger.

Look what Jeremy Hunt did.

Quote

 

The financial position of the National Health Service has “substantially deteriorated” in recent years, a new analysis has found.

Research by the Health Foundation found that every area of the country had hospitals and other providers with struggling finances. 

A striking map drawn up by the Foundation shows that all regions of the English NHS have gone from a surplus in 2012/13 to all but one being in overall deficit in 2014/5.

The problems are principally the fault of Government policies leading to an increased reliance on expensive agency workers, with funding failing to keep pace, the report says.

 

Independent

As for drugs, the Tories blocked a Labour motion that would have allowed the NHS to source drugs from cheaper manufacturers.

Modern day Corn Law.

It's being run into the ground quite deliberately.

Blair can also take a bow. His public/private arrangements mean we're paying landlords multiples of what we should have paid for new facilities.

Corbyn very clearly isn't Blair though. His mistakes would be different and hopefully less grievous.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Xann

[jon_c]

30 minutes ago, hippo said:

Where I work we have a contracts team that handle larger contracts - and I would have thought NHS england would handle large drugs contracts. Sure if what you say it true it is abuse of the system and abuse of power - is it unique to the NHS though ?  - Ive seen similar deals \ stories in the private sector.

 

My information is a couple of years old because he's retired now, but I wouldn't thought things have changed much.

 I don't think it is exclusive to the NHS, and I don't blame people within the NHS, I blame successive governments (of both colours) for putting in place a system that favors the profit of private companies and not cost savings and standards for the NHS. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

I'd argue a much bigger problem than population growth is people simply misusing A&E departments by going to them instead of GP's for relatively minor issues. Also, the incredible volume of clearings in the woods who clog up A&E's on Friday and Saturday nights due to injuries sustained whilst being shitfaced causes a significant drag on things.

 

[darrenm]

4 hours ago, Awol said:

Fire up the Quattro, or is it the Delorean.. Or maybe a hearse.

At least Labour can expect an entry in the Guinness Book of Records for the new longest suicide note in history. 

Or as everyone but the right-wing press are calling it, a modern, progressive manifesto with every major policy polling as majority approval ratings.

[hippo]

1 minute ago, jon_c said:

My information is a couple of years old because he's retired now, but I wouldn't thought things have changed much.

 I don't think it is exclusive to the NHS, and I don't blame people within the NHS, I blame successive governments (of both colours) for putting in place a system that favors the profit of private companies and not cost savings and standards for the NHS. 

With Drug companies I really couldn't see another way. The Drug companies (in part) fund the research - then hoover up the profits when a drug goes on the market.

The NHS is always going to be a cost. Funding is proving inadequate some hospitals are racking up debt. Bottom line is the nhs is running at a certain level of expenditure - call that debt if you wish. Id say its a price on keeping people pain free and healthy.

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, jon_c said:

Yes, I'm just saying there is money spent very badly in the NHS. It's a licence to print money for drugs companies at the moment. You should see the money their reps spend wooing doctors, to prescribe their drugs. It's obscene. 

These root issues need to be sorted, because investment in the NHS without careful overhaul, is just going to go straight to private companies. Without improving much at all for ordinary people.

My favoured solution to this issue is nationalising pharmaceutical companies. 

[darrenm]

3 hours ago, Chindie said:

Giving an additional cost to businesses in light of Brexit is outright daft.

 “Labour accepts the referendum result. We will scrap the Brexit white paper and make retaining benefits of single market and customs union negotiating priorities. We will guarantee rights of EU nationals living in UK. We will reject any ‘no deal’ position and drop great repeal bill, replacing it with EU rights and protections bill to ensure no diminishing of workers’ rights, equality laws or consumer and environmental rights.”

 Doesn't that mean we'll be very likely to stay in the single market and customs union, meaning no financial change to corporations?

[blandy]

37 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Or as everyone but the right-wing press are calling it, a modern, progressive manifesto with every major policy polling as majority approval ratings.

It's less mental than the tory plans and about half of it is pretty good. It's certainly not a suicide note. I think leaking it was (accidentally or deliberately) for once a smart move from Labour.

We just need nothing stupid to happen now to distract from.....Corbyn's car... run over a reporter...oh, FFS! 

[Awol]

33 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Or as everyone but the right-wing press are calling it, a modern, progressive manifesto with every major policy polling as majority approval ratings.

Yes, I'm sure that's what everyone is calling it,. Maybe this is indeed the document that will launch Corbyn into No 10 on a wave of popular support for 1970's socialist ideals, though I suspect there's more chance of the PLP getting together and launching Corbyn from a cannon. 

Amongst an ocean of general left wing lunacy it reassuring to read that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using nuclear weapons. I'm glad they got that out there.   

[Awol]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

We just need nothing stupid to happen now to distract from.....Corbyn's car... run over a reporter...oh, FFS! 

(works for BBC and he is okay)

[darrenm]

Just now, blandy said:

It's less mental than the tory plans and about half of it is pretty good. It's certainly not a suicide note. I think leaking it was (accidentally or deliberately) for once a smart move from Labour.

We just need nothing stupid to happen now to distract from.....Corbyn's car... run over a reporter...oh, FFS! 

Ha ha, they're getting desperate now.

 

[Xann]

1 minute ago, Awol said:

(works for BBC and he is okay)

Not Kuenssberg then.

Pity.

[villaglint]

Going back to the STEM conversation yesterday. Yes I absolutely agree with that and I'd also add an A in there to make STEAM. A is for Arts because the whole point is to try and prepare people for a job market where AI/machines will be doing a lot of jobs that currently exist. The area those artificial methods are furthest from is creative/innovative skills so the Arts become more important than ever and also tie in nicely to the other subjects there. 

Relating that back to Corbyn the notion of a national education service sounds like a fantastic idea to me. As someone who has done a lot of further education in his adult years it is wonderfully enriching to learn complex subjects when you know a bit about the wider world rather than as a snot nose kid just trying to impress the girls. It is also immensely important that people are able to educate and retain themselves as whole industries are disrupted by the progress of technology. 

I haven't looked into all the costings but if it can work I hope someone can make it work. 

 

[blandy]

2 minutes ago, Awol said:

Amongst an ocean of general left wing lunacy it reassuring to read that any leader should be "extremely cautious" about using nuclear weapons. I'm glad they got that out there.   

There's defintely an element of frivolous about the "extremely cautious" bit, but most of it isn't left wing lunacy. I don't agree with al lof it by a long way (half of it is unrealistic in the extreme), but it's not left wing.

Tuition fees - how long since they were abolished - they were not in place under Thatcher or Major, were they? Building houses - left wing? When were the railways privatised - early to mid 90's maybe? State run railways are common throughout the West. Keep Trident. Left wing? really? Rejection of Fracking, as has happened across the world - incduding various US states..

It's striking for being pretty mainstream (if partly unrealistic, but then all manifestos are like that).

[dAVe80]

9 minutes ago, blandy said:

We just need nothing stupid to happen now to distract from.....Corbyn's car... run over a reporter...oh, FFS! 

Shame it wasn't Kunessburg!

[dAVe80]

5 minutes ago, Xann said:

Not Kuenssberg then.

Pity.

Damn it, beat me to it!

[blandy]

5 minutes ago, Xann said:

Not Kuenssberg then.

Pity.

 

1 minute ago, dAVe80 said:

Shame it wasn't Kunessburg!

I don't get the level of hate.

[Chindie]

17 minutes ago, darrenm said:

 “Labour accepts the referendum result. We will scrap the Brexit white paper and make retaining benefits of single market and customs union negotiating priorities. We will guarantee rights of EU nationals living in UK. We will reject any ‘no deal’ position and drop great repeal bill, replacing it with EU rights and protections bill to ensure no diminishing of workers’ rights, equality laws or consumer and environmental rights.”

 Doesn't that mean we'll be very likely to stay in the single market and customs union, meaning no financial change to corporations?

A Norway deal then. Probably the best outcome that could be hoped for whilst accepting the result, but they'd be slaughtered for it.

And regardless, you're still talking about bumping corporation tax. You'd get a bump in income, but that wouldn't last as businesses work out how to negate it, or outright bugger off elsewhere.