General Election 2017

[wazzap24]

12 minutes ago, darrenm said:

I can't help but wonder if Andy Burnham or Owen Smith would do any better. And I can't see how they would have made much difference. They wouldn't get called scruffy so that person on the news who doesn't like Corbyn because he doesn't wear a tie would have to maybe not like Smith because he wears the wrong colour glasses instead. 

Burnham might have been a decent bet, but Smith is as big of a car crash as Corbyn imo. 

[sharkyvilla]

27 minutes ago, darrenm said:

I can't help but wonder if Andy Burnham or Owen Smith would do any better. And I can't see how they would have made much difference. They wouldn't get called scruffy so that person on the news who doesn't like Corbyn because he doesn't wear a tie would have to maybe not like Smith because he wears the wrong colour glasses instead. 

I think Burnham would have Labour a lot closer to winning than Ed Miliband, let alone Corbyn.  The Scotland factor would still make it almost impossible to win outright though.

[Risso]

1 hour ago, darrenm said:

That's gone right over your head hasn't it?

Sorry, you'll have to explain your obviously far too clever point, because to my dull brain it looked like you were defending that arse Abbott.

[TrentVilla]

3 hours ago, darrenm said:

Attempting to get some perspective is spin?

Well it is when you misrepresent what happened.

[snowychap]

2 hours ago, Risso said:

arse Abbott

I'm not up on my ecclesiastical hierarchies, is that above or below a bum Bishop?

[dAVe80]

3 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I'm not up on my ecclesiastical hierarchies, is that above or below a bum Bishop?

That would be an ecumenical matter.

[Risso]

15 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I'm not up on my ecclesiastical hierarchies, is that above or below a bum Bishop?

Just below, on a par with a derriere Deacon.

[Wainy316]

8 hours ago, wazzap24 said:

Their recent record is absolutely appalling. They have failed to meet any of their fiscal targets, failed on immigration, failed on the universal benefits system, failed on improving living standards, failed on child poverty, the NHS is in a right state - it goes on and on and on. How by any measure can people see them as credible or capable. 

They haven't failed any of that.  In order to fail you have to first try,

[Jon]

5 hours ago, blandy said:

Exactly, as well as taking the focus off the actual policy. It's counter productive 3 times over because it makes the media story a: Diane Abbot..ha ha fool, b: Oh, did they? Policeman you say? and c: essentially covers up May's behaviour as you say.

Labour just has to be more switched on, but it so isn't.

I mean wtf is Corbyn doing refusing to go on the TV debates? If he wants people to hear his "offer" to see his "qualities" he needs to get as much coverage as he can. I don't think the people at the top of Labour want to win. It's not what they're about. They're about doing what they think is "pure" or part of some ideological "struggle" against capitalism, Israel, and various other "causes".

Labour needs to be in power to be relevant. Half if Labour has run away and hid in the hope JC self destructs, and the remaining rump is a bumbling embarrassment.

Exactly where I'm at pete. Becoming the governing party seems a minor aim in the grand scheme of things.  Bonkers. 

[coda]

12 hours ago, Xann said:

Personally, I don't find this...

... Nearly as offensive as this...

... A collection of millionaires voting to cut benefits for the disabled.

The former is enabling the latter. Perennial opposition with this crew in charge of Labour.

[villaglint]

Just been catching up on the last few pages after a few days out. 

Interesting as always, a bit heated and haughty in places as always. That is politics I guess. 

I was thinking I wonder what percentage of the country is engaging in the debates at this level. A very small number I would guess. A pretty small percentage of even VT presumably. 

I always think a friend of mine is a pretty good barometer of the political wind. He always voted for Blair and I suspect Cameron too. 

I asked him what he thought of Corbyn and he said he hated the guy. I asked him why and he said he didn't know but he was very firm on it. I asked him to come up with any possible reason and he couldn't. 

I asked him what he thought of May and he said he didn't like her but she'd probably get the job done. 

Obviously not everyone but that is the level at which a lot of people are forming their decisions. 

In a democracy you get the government you deserve. 

[chrisp65]

7 minutes ago, villaglint said:

Just been catching up on the last few pages after a few days out. 

Interesting as always, a bit heated and haughty in places as always. That is politics I guess. 

I was thinking I wonder what percentage of the country is engaging in the debates at this level. A very small number I would guess. A pretty small percentage of even VT presumably. 

I always think a friend of mine is a pretty good barometer of the political wind. He always voted for Blair and I suspect Cameron too. 

I asked him what he thought of Corbyn and he said he hated the guy. I

This is quite an unusual little internet talking shop and we all know we're just venting what you can't actually debate in real life as the vast majority just aren't interested beyond accepting the front page of their newspaper.

Had the same conversation over Brexit, there was no debate, we were 'literally full' 'literally sinking' and Romanians were taking all the jobs and all the houses. So to be fair, that side of the argument got their simple message out there and repeated. Truth had nothing to do with it.

Now it's all about strong Theresa and mad Corbyn. I've listened in on very similar conversations about Corbyn. I didn't join in, I've learnt there's no point. If it's been on the front of the Mail or the Echo that's the end of the matter. Corbyn is rubbish? Why? Oh he just is.

Trouble is on this one, where there was a better debate to be had on Brexit. I'm not convinced giving Corbyn a fair crack would actually change many people's perceptions. 

[darrenm]

Brilliant Pie

 

[Chindie]

1 minute ago, darrenm said:

Brilliant Pie

 

Oxymoron.

[darrenm]

15 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Oxymoron.

Not a fan?

[Chindie]

10 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Not a fan?

No.

Not at all.

I'm astonished anyone is.

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, Chindie said:

No.

Not at all.

I'm astonished anyone is.

Yes, this. I just don't get it. 

[blandy]

8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Yes, this. I just don't get it. 

That surprises me.  Satire of the way the media works, Satire of the way the tories campaign, Satire of the record of the government.

It's not particularly funny, but I don't think that's the point. It's not meant to be.

It pretty perfectly captures the way we're fed soundbites and use them to decide how to vote, in direct contradiction of reality, really.

[Davkaus]

I like his videos, probably because I agree with every damn thing he says.

[bobzy]

22 hours ago, villaglint said:

I asked him what he thought of Corbyn and he said he hated the guy. I asked him why and he said he didn't know but he was very firm on it. I asked him to come up with any possible reason and he couldn't. 

I asked him what he thought of May and he said he didn't like her but she'd probably get the job done. 

I experience the exact same situation with most of my mates.  Nobody reads up on anything at all.

As an example, I'm in a "group chat" with two of my best mates - one lives in Manchester, one in Solihull.  I live in Nottingham and we had a county council election recently (as did many) so thought I'd message them asking if a] they have one too and b] if they're voting at all.  They both said they had one.  Manchester guy "probably just going to vote on the general election", Solihull guy "oh yeah, we've got one.  I need to have a look."  Votes Andy Street as "we just need consistency and the Tories will get the job done".  Not a county council election but a West Midlands mayoral one; didn't read up on what he was voting for - just stuck to that exact "job done", "strong and stable" soundbite.  Absolutely crazy.

The vast majority of the public do not care, will not read into policies but will happily, blindly vote - and, this time, the majority will vote for a Conservative government that will not do what's "right" for the vast majority.

Politics is hilarious like that, I guess.