Davkaus Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I love the Daily Mail front page. "Our campaign to smear Corbyn failed, and Mother Theresa has jumped in to bed with bigots, how do we distract the plebs?" Diana, seriously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, JB said: You say that with a lot of certainty considering how wrong you and others (myself included) were about the outcome of this election. You may well be right but I really don't think it's that simple. If anything, this result will give him/Labour a bit of momentum (no pun intended) IMO. Another possibility is that people will jump on the bandwagon (for want of a better phrase) and see him as a viable option. Put it like this. Corbyn ran a very good campaign, with a manifesto many liked, against a dreadful PM, running one of the worst campaigns ever, built on a terrible manifesto, and he managed to gain 30 seats. They lost votes to the Tories in traditionally Labour areas that voted Leave despite Labours declared position on Brexit. They lost working class votes. The Tories grew in vote share. I just do not see many of the Tories traditional seats going for him. Ever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 ^^Incomparable reports, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 10, 2017 Labour won Kensington. Kensington. Tell me again how Labour will struggle to win Tory safe seats. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Chindie said: Put it like this. Corbyn ran a very good campaign, with a manifesto many liked, against a dreadful PM, running one of the worst campaigns ever, built on a terrible manifesto, and he managed to gain 30 seats. They lost votes to the Tories in traditionally Labour areas that voted Leave despite Labours declared position on Brexit. They lost working class votes. The Tories grew in vote share. I just do not see many of the Tories traditional seats going for him. Ever. Fair enough. I understand what you're saying and the reasons behind it. But I just think that amongst other things, this election has shown us just how difficult it is to predict things with such certainty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, JB said: You say that with a lot of certainty considering how wrong you and others (myself included) were about the outcome of this election. You may well be right but I really don't think it's that simple. If anything, this result will give him/Labour a bit of momentum (no pun intended) IMO. Another possibility is that people will jump on the bandwagon (for want of a better phrase) and see him as a viable option. A lot depends on who the Tories put up against him in another election. From this GE it's fairly obvious the Tory brand is still pretty toxic, and there are very few Conservatives who can reach out beyond their base. Cameron was one, Boris was when in charge of London but his stock is at an all-time low and likely to just get stabbed in the back early on in a leadership challenge again, Ruth Davidson but she's not an MP, Ken Clarke but he's even older than Corbyn and too pro-Europe. If they put up May or another hard-nosed Tory bastard in October then I reckon Corbyn could get a majority. That Heidi Allen would win a few male votes though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Labour won Kensington. Kensington. Tell me again how Labour will struggle to win Tory safe seats. Exactly. Imagine your reaction if someone on here had predicted that. Canterbury as well. Edited June 10, 2017 by JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Haven't heard from friends in Canterbury for 24 hours. Guessing it was a good night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Labour won Kensington. Kensington. Tell me again how Labour will struggle to win Tory safe seats. It's worth mentioning that they won Kensington by a reported 20 votes. If the conservatives ran a proper campaign and had a proper leader that seat would remain blue any day of the week. I'm sure we could find some labour "safe" seats that went tory too, or at least historical labour seats that went tory. I think the thing people are trying to say is that Corbyn needs to appeal to a much larger base in the next election where by all accounts the conservatives will run a much better campaign. Labour supporters are already acting like the next election is won (some are even acting like this election was won). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Both parties will likely have better machines behind them next time around. It's unlikely the Tories will run a worse campaign, but the electorate and the Labour Party can't fail to have noticed Corbyn's unelectable tag seems to have lost its stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 10, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted June 10, 2017 27 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Labour won Kensington. Kensington. Tell me again how Labour will struggle to win Tory safe seats. And the Conservatives took traditional Labour seats, Derbyshire North East, Walsall North and Stoke South for instance. And obviously gains in Scotland. And that's running a bloody awful campaign with a risible leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 10, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, magnkarl said: It's worth mentioning that they won Kensington by a reported 20 votes. If the conservatives ran a proper campaign and had a proper leader that seat would remain blue any day of the week. I'm sure we could find some labour "safe" seats that went tory too, or at least historical labour seats that went tory. I think the thing people are trying to say is that Corbyn needs to appeal to a much larger base in the next election where by all accounts the conservatives will run a much better campaign. Labour supporters are already acting like the next election is won (some are even acting like this election was won). Where's this proper leader coming from? The disaffected Tories mostly went to LIb Dem, one presumes this is an Anti - Brexit vote (as has been the countrywide trend). Those votes won't go back to Tory anytime soon. It may be Tory next time, it may remain Labour, too close to say but I think your assumption that it will be automatically Tory just doesn't stack up 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 51 minutes ago, mjmooney said: You 'think' that. I think it's utter nonsense. I am sure there are plenty of Jews who would take your comparing Zionism with ISIS as anti-Semitic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 I think most parties have pretty much failed. Tories lost their majority, Labour were still 40 seats short. Lib Dems still marginalised and SNP down significantly. UKIP well, enough said. Let's have new leaders all round ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bickster said: Where's this proper leader coming from? The disaffected Tories mostly went to LIb Dem, one presumes this is an Anti - Brexit vote (as has been the countrywide trend). Those votes won't go back to Tory anytime soon. It may be Tory next time, it may remain Labour, too close to say but I think your assumption that it will be automatically Tory just doesn't stack up Which is fair enough, but by the same line of thought Labour can't expect to get any of their lost seats back. We can all agree that the tory campaign this year was absolute tosh, while labour ran a good campaign. Labour still lost some seats to May - probably the worst candidate they've ever put forward. On the proper leader part I'd probably go with Ruth Davidson. Edited June 10, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 10, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 minute ago, magnkarl said: Which is fair enough, but by the same line of thought Labour can't expect to get any of their lost seats back. We can all agree that the tory campaign this year was absolute tosh, while labour ran a good campaign. Labour still lost some seats to May - probably the worst candidate they've ever put forward. Labours success also cost them in some seats - Southport up the road from me for instance. usually safe Liberal seat, Liberal vote collapsed to third place, UKIP disappeared Labour into second from a distant third. Thats now a winnable seat they've never had. Absolutely a 3 way marginal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 You know what it is with Kensington all the people that live there are registered abroad for a tax dodge. So the only people actually registered to vote in the area are the live in staff. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Look at Mansfield. Very epitome of a working class town, ex mining place, and have just elected a Conservative for the first time ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: I love the Daily Mail front page. "Our campaign to smear Corbyn failed, and Mother Theresa has jumped in to bed with bigots, how do we distract the plebs?" Diana, seriously. Diana? Really? No one under 50 gives a fudge and those over 50 that still do, really should let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 In any case I am really happy that this election has brought two things out that I cherish in our democracy. Debate and discourse. For once the left actually discussed policy and cost rather than label anyone who votes right or centre deplorable, a racist, misogynist, capitalist etc. It's been a trend for a long time that the left just stopped debating with anyone who has different views to them. This time around Corbyn actually took the time to discuss policy rather than the shit show we saw with Trump/Hillary where the left pretty much brought themselves down by focusing on how morally superior they feel rather than why and how they offered a better solution than Trump. I love the fact that Corbyn embraced that the left has to stop alienating people who have been left stranded for a long time feeling forced to vote right because they're being called out for having anything else than liberal/socialistic views. No one's ever been persuaded to vote for anyone by being labeled and insulted (much like what happened with Trump supporters half a year ago). Whoever gave Corbyn the tip to go more mainstream this election has hit the nail on the head. He ditched a lot of the things that made him unpalatable for older folks, for centrists and for people who don't like extremes. Being against the prevailing view of the left did not get shouted down by a bunch of Momentum activists, it got debated and discussed, which at the end of the day appeals to the gray vote which I am a part of. On the other hand Theresa went the total opposite way. Her campaign was very similar to Hillary's where all she did was focus on slander, scaremongering and the typical "when Corbyn is in power we'll all get killed by IRA" kind of stuff. If her campaign would be focused on debate and discourse, ala Cameron, we'd probably have one of the best election cycles I can remember. However there's always one side that likes to be immature and this time around it was the conservatives. Let's hope the conservatives bring in a leader that can hold a debate without a critical motherboard overload every time she's asked a question, that way we'll be in pretty good shape moving forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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