General Election 2017

[jon_c]

3 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said:

Can anyone point me in the direction of Corbyn's anti Semitic remarks?

I was speaking to a Jewish lady at work who said she's voting conservative because she could never vote for an anti-Semite like Corbyn.

I asked her what he had said and she just responded with "Every Jewish person hates him, he must have done something wrong"

I think people are associating support of Hamas as "anti-Jew"

[mjmooney]

3 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said:

Can anyone point me in the direction of Corbyn's anti Semitic remarks?

I was speaking to a Jewish lady at work who said she's voting conservative because she could never vote for an anti-Semite like Corbyn.

I asked her what he had said and she just responded with "Every Jewish person hates him, he must have done something wrong"

Well, presumably, he's pro-Palestinian, anti-Zionist. 

That's a very different thing from being antisemitic. It's like saying that opposition to ISIS is the same as Islamaphobia. 

[sexbelowsound]

1 minute ago, jon_c said:

I think people are associating support of Hamas as "anti-Jew"

Ah, I see. So it's a tad more complicated than him just coming out and saying "I don't like 'em"?

[sexbelowsound]

Cheers @mjmooney and @jon_c

[mjmooney]

I wonder how many Tory MPs are opposed to the DUP deal? And how many are pro-EU? 

I wonder if any of them might contemplate crossing the floor to the LibDems? 

Just a thought. 

[jon_c]

4 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I wonder how many Tory MPs are opposed to the DUP deal? And how many are pro-EU? 

I wonder if any of them might contemplate crossing the floor to the LibDems? 

Just a thought. 

Only one Tory voted against the enacting Article 50, if that's any sort of indicator. 

[Demitri_C]

12 months I predict Corbyn will be PM. But this was probably one of the worst campaigns ive seen from conservatives in my lifetime, yet they still have a hell of a lot more seats than labour. Will Tories make same mistake again? I a m not so sure.

[mjmooney]

The DUP can't vote on English laws (due to the EVEL law passed in 2015) this meant the Tories only have a majority when it comes to Brexit and the DUP promised a soft Brexit in their manifesto (due to the border with Ireland). This means the Tories can't vote through their manifesto without the consent of other parties' MPs (and it looks like a lot of their own MPs will vote against anyway).

If it becomes evident they can't pass bills then there will be a vote of no confidence and there will be another election (hence Boris getting ready to oppose her).

 

[Chindie]

12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

12 months I predict Corbyn will be PM. But this was probably one of the worst campaigns ive seen from conservatives in my lifetime, yet they still have a hell of a lot more seats than labour. Will Tories make same mistake again? I a m not so sure.

He won't be.

Corbyn simply will not change enough old school Tory seats to win.  He possibly could pinch a few more seats from the other parties, perhaps make gains in Scotland if they get their act together up there, and perhaps nick a few Tory seats that are marginal, but there's too many seats that just do not vote Labour and certainly won't vote for Labour lead by someone they view as too left and with too many skeletons (even if the Tory party now has skeletons in open view...). 

He's done spectacularly well, but Corbyn won't ever lead a Labour majority.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Chindie

[Davkaus]

@mjmooneyThat's not right, the tories have a majority among English MPs anyway.
 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Davkaus

[OutByEaster?]

There's an awful lot of talk about campaigns and about presence and various types of media following the result. I think that ignores something important - Brexit got people a little more politicised, a bit more interested in issues - and Labours surge didn't begin when Corbyn got a haircut and a new tie, or when Teresa started looking a bit mad and went into hiding, the surge wasn't a PR coup, it wasn't great media management - it came about because of the release of a manifesto that an awful lot of people liked - and that an awful lot of people were prepared to read because Brexit had made them more interested in policies and a little less interested in people slagging each other off.

I think it's showed a real appetite from people to move policy in their own favour, to have a proper alternative to the same old same old. I think there's also a backlash against the vindictiveness of a certain type of politics - the front pages of the Mail and the Sun and some of the figures we've seen on TV have turned voters off, they pushed them in the other direction. I think the electorate has used Brexit to become interested in issues, I think there's a move towards "just answer the question and stop calling each other names, because we're interested in what you're going to do about this" I think the electorate is ready for a softer world.

I think there's a fear in the Labour party that it will slide back toward the right in an effort to find popularity (an effort I personally think would be a mistake) but there is at least an awareness of where the party might go. In the Conservative ranks, I think there's a complete ignorance of the way forward - if the Conservative party wants to court the popular vote, then I think they need a wave of new 'softer' Conservatism, they need to get nicer in the minds of the electorate in my opinion and for that they need policies they can stand behind without looking callous.

What's interesting is that the media is focused entirely on campaigns, on facebook and twitter and on rallies and on TV appearances and debates and numbers and polls and PR this and PR that - I think they're missing the point - an awakened electorate, with a Brexit education and a new interest in politics wants policies they can support, not soundbites - that's the Jeremy Corbyn lesson, and that's what no one is talking about.

 

 

[PaulC]

14 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

@mjmooneyThat's not right, the tories have a majority among English MPs anyway.
 

and I am I right in thinking that even if that wasn't the case you take away Sinn Fein and DUp mps then the tories will still have more seats then the rest of the parties combined. 

[Chindie]

3 minutes ago, PaulC said:

and I am I right in thinking that even if that wasn't the case you take away Sinn Fein and DUp mps then the tories will still have more seats then the rest of the parties combined. 

Tories have a 'majority' of 4 if you ignore Northern Ireland entirely. It's 3 if you include the 1 independent in Northern Ireland (who I know nothing about).

Still precarious.

[PaulC]

Just now, Chindie said:

Tories have a 'majority' of 4 if you ignore Northern Ireland entirely. It's 3 if you include the 1 independent in Northern Ireland (who I know nothing about).

Still precarious.

Yes she has to have her whole party support her. Theres going to be many compromises. 

[MakemineVanilla]

50 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said:

Can anyone point me in the direction of Corbyn's anti Semitic remarks?

I was speaking to a Jewish lady at work who said she's voting conservative because she could never vote for an anti-Semite like Corbyn.

I asked her what he had said and she just responded with "Every Jewish person hates him, he must have done something wrong"

Generally speaking most orthodox Jews are conservative and secular Jews tend to be liberals.

I think the Left are anti-Semitic but by implication rather than overtly, like most Muslims and the British working class tend to be. 

[sexbelowsound]

1 minute ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Generally speaking most orthodox Jews are conservative and secular Jews tend to be liberals.

I think the Left are anti-Semitic but by implication rather than overtly, like most Muslims and the British working class tend to be. 

Gotcha, that's kind of what I thought because the person I was speaking to, a teacher nonetheless, was actually pro the conservatives education and NHS policies. 

[JB]

33 minutes ago, Chindie said:

He won't be.

Corbyn simply will not change enough old school Tory seats to win.  He possibly could pinch a few more seats from the other parties, perhaps make gains in Scotland if they get their act together up there, and perhaps nick a few Tory seats that are marginal, but there's too many seats that just do not vote Labour and certainly won't vote for Labour lead by someone they view as too left and with too many skeletons (even if the Tory party now has skeletons in open view...). 

He's done spectacularly well, but Corbyn won't ever lead a Labour majority.

You say that with a lot of certainty considering how wrong you and others (myself included) were about the outcome of this election. You may well be right but I really don't think it's that simple. If anything, this result will give him/Labour a bit of momentum (no pun intended) IMO. Another possibility is that people will jump on the bandwagon (for want of a better phrase) and see him as a viable option. 

[chrisp65]

8 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

I think the Left are anti-Semitic but by implication 

go on, I'm fascinated...

I'd consider myself 'left', I'd consider much of my social circle 'left', open my eyes to our anti semitic ways.

Not being angry here, just something that's constantly said and now is a more opportune time to discuss it than the last several weeks.

 

***actually, I'm going out for a few hours (smashing money lenders' windows) so now's probably not the time now I think abooot it***

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by chrisp65

[mjmooney]

8 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

 

I think the Left are anti-Semitic but by implication rather than overtly, like most Muslims and the British working class tend to be. 

You 'think' that. 

I think it's utter nonsense. 

[Awol]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

You're taking the anti-semitic line a bit far.

 

A typo?

Yes.. probably my best ever!