General Election 2017

[Risso]

1 hour ago, PieFacE said:

When this election was announced I had no idea who I was going to vote for, and was probably simply not going to vote.

However, I think for the first time ever I'm going to vote for Labour. They've done enough to win me over, wonder how many others like me there are?

I'd guess not nearly enough. 

Hopefully nowhere near enough.  I've put an offer in on a house in the UK, and it'll be a right arse ache cancelling all our plans if Steptoe by some malevolent twist of fate DOES become the next PM.

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

You were making a point about 'thinking for ourselves' and 'making informed decisions on how much we want to engage with lasting politicial choices' and you went on to make points about other elections and, supposedly, what they actually meant.

You included the 1975 United Kingdom European Community (Common Market) membership referendum and a comment about joining the EU and a single currency system. Whilst the EC may have morphed over time in to the EU (and one could get in to a deep discussion as to whether that was the intent all the time for some and all of the stuff about federalism and closer political union being at the heart of what some people wanted) and a single currency may have come about two decades later, were people expected to have foreseen that and thus voted with this clairvoyance to hand?

If your point was merely that there is much more to a simple yes/no question, especially in politics, than what is on the face of it then I'd agree. What I would also argue, though, is that anything implied or inferred is done so from the point of view of the speaker or the listener (writer/reader) and thus open to interpretation and not presentable as undeniable and incontravertible.

I think voters should have been a little more aware but having just read the 1975 literature I can see why they weren't! It made the EC argument with gusto but the non-EC one with trepidation. However, anyone with any common sense would've known the EU would grow,

It's much harder than a 'yes/no' question but those claiming they didn't know the consequences should take a little more responsibility for their interaction pre and post ref. Especially if they know what the single market was! (and some people still don't).

Absolutely agree with the incontrovertible pov; people still hear 'we're spending £350m on the NHS' when I hadn't once considered that.

[bickster]

The Nasty Party of the Well Heeled

The Omnishambles Party and the

Can't Believe a Word they Say Party

 

What a choice... back to the bunker

 

[jon_c]

47 minutes ago, bickster said:

The Nasty Party of the Well Heeled

The Omnishambles Party and the

Can't Believe a Word they Say Party

 

What a choice... back to the bunker

 

I'm not sure who these are, the first could be Tories or UKIP. And the other two could basically be any of them. 

[Jon]

39 minutes ago, jon_c said:

I'm not sure who these are, the first could be Tories or UKIP. And the other two could basically be any of them. 

I'm guessing it is tories, Labour and lib dem, in that order?

[bickster]

6 hours ago, jon_c said:

I'm not sure who these are, the first could be Tories or UKIP. And the other two could basically be any of them. 

There's little difference between the Tories and UKIP these days, hence the kippers falling off a cliff in the polls

I think you can trust what Labour say more than the Lib Dems, You just couldn't trust Labour to run a raffle without having a three sided argument about the shade of red the tickets should be (red red / pink / blue red). The Lib Dems would sell their collective Grandmothers into slavery for cabinet positions having previously pledged millions be added to the State Pension

[Demitri_C]

As a Londoner I was thinking maybe labour that was until I read their plans on inheritance tax. Absolutely no chance I am voting for them now. What a stupid policy 

[TrentVilla]

11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

As a Londoner I was thinking maybe labour that was until I read their plans on inheritance tax. Absolutely no chance I am voting for them now. What a stupid policy 

They've not actually revealed their plans though have they? I was under the impression that inheritance tax has been omitted from the manifesto? 

I can understand why if they have, it's a very emotive issue. 

[Demitri_C]

23 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

They've not actually revealed their plans though have they? I was under the impression that inheritance tax has been omitted from the manifesto? 

I can understand why if they have, it's a very emotive issue. 

Yea they want to hit those whose properties are 425k or more in comparison to the current 850k which would effect near enough most Londoners. What a stupid idea mate. The whole of London will vote conservative if he does this. I think current system on inheritance tax is fair

[darrenm]

22 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Yea they want to hit those whose properties are 425k or more in comparison to the current 850k which would effect near enough most Londoners. What a stupid idea mate. The whole of London will vote conservative if he does this. I think current system on inheritance tax is fair

Obviously we'll have to see some firm pledge or manifesto commitment to really be able to judge it but I suppose they can't draw the line very high just because of the microcosm of London. 

[JB]

25 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Yea they want to hit those whose properties are 425k or more in comparison to the current 850k which would effect near enough most Londoners. What a stupid idea mate. The whole of London will vote conservative if he does this. I think current system on inheritance tax is fair

Nonsense. I think you underestimate people. Not everybody is in it for themselves or would vote purely in self interest. Many good people appreciate the benefits for the whole of society that higher levels of taxation would bring. 

[darrenm]

Reading up it seems they were considering it last week at clause V but decided against it going in the manifesto. Looks like the Torygraph decided to run with it anyway. I guess we'll see at 11am.

Edit: I can see why they would be wise to leave it out but I do think it would actually help get house prices in London down a bit which are currently unsustainable and causing London to be financially disconnected from the rest of the country.

Edited May 16, 2017 by darrenm

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

As a Londoner I was thinking maybe labour that was until I read their plans on inheritance tax. Absolutely no chance I am voting for them now. What a stupid policy 

You were fine with the other tax rises though, the ones that didn't affect you?

Edited May 16, 2017 by Davkaus

[Demitri_C]

30 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

You were fine with the other tax rises though, the ones that didn't affect you?

I really don't get your point davkaus because surely that's why people vote for help with their own personal circumstance? 

39 minutes ago, JB said:

Nonsense. I think you underestimate people. Not everybody is in it for themselves or would vote purely in self interest. Many good people appreciate the benefits for the whole of society that higher levels of taxation would bring. 

i think others do but are not open/scared to admit it. I vote for whatever benefits me and my family so I don't have to struggle in life. I don't mind contributing more to help others as long as its fair. Don't see whats wrong with that to be honest. And before anyone tries saying I don't care about people on benefits that's utter bollox. You can help in other ways like donating to charities, hospitals which i do.   

[markavfc40]

30 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I really don't get your point davkaus because surely that's why people vote for help with their own personal circumstance? 

i think others do but are not open/scared to admit it. I vote for whatever benefits me and my family so I don't have to struggle in life.   

It is an interesting point you raise here Dem and I believe we certainly need more people to vote not to necessarily improve their own lives but to improve the lives of those worse off. It is a good barometer in judging a society by how it treats its most vulnerable and the last few years we have increasingly treated ours like shit.

You can have the best of both worlds though. You can have the social conscience and want a better life for those worse off than you and you can also be a little selfish in ensuring that if you ever hit on hard times and say lose your job that there is state provision in place to help you. You can also help ensure that if you and yours become sick, become disabled, get old and frail and need social care etc that the public services are in great shape to help you. Also that the local school is adequately funded so if you ever have children/grandchildren etc they have access to a good education.

If to pay for all that then those of us with a reasonable standard of living, relative to many, have to pay a few more pennies towards it then why not. If that makes you slightly worse off but still relatively comfortable then why not happily go along with that. In the end it benefits all of us.

I think it is a major issue in this country now that we have been brainwashed into blaming any woes on the needy be they disabled, sick, old and frail, out of work etc or blame any woes on Johnny Foreigner. These people have been demonised and by doing so it has and will continue to allow the Government to get away with murder. We are one of the richest countries in the world. We can have a great NHS and other public services, we can afford to pay everyone a decent wage, we shouldn’t have a million plus people reliant on food banks, we shouldn’t have millions of children living in poverty, we shouldn’t have millions of working poor. Those things are all a choice by not having a fairer distribution of wealth. By too many people thinking of the pennies in their own pocket and not having a social conscience. You can certainly go a long way to changing that by the way you vote on June 8th because by voting for the Tories you will be getting more of the same and some.

[wazzap24]

18 hours ago, Risso said:

Hopefully nowhere near enough.  I've put an offer in on a house in the UK, and it'll be a right arse ache cancelling all our plans if Steptoe by some malevolent twist of fate DOES become the next PM.

Why would you cancel? 

If 'steptoe' wins, it'll be a much nicer place to live 

You could probably cancel that expensive health insurance you would have needed too, I mean you wouldn't have trusted the Tories with the NHS regarding your family care surely? 

[TrentVilla]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Yea they want to hit those whose properties are 425k or more in comparison to the current 850k which would effect near enough most Londoners. What a stupid idea mate. The whole of London will vote conservative if he does this. I think current system on inheritance tax is fair

My point was it isn't in the manifesto or is reported not to be so as yet the Labour position on this hasn't been made clear.

I actually think there is very little fair about inheritance tax for a variety of different reasons the best of which can be found by Googling Lord Grovesnor.

As it happens, I think Labour probably would do something like this but they know it will cost them votes so aren't likely to shout about it.

[Chindie]

Trent taking cues from Theresa there

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

I really don't get your point davkaus because surely that's why people vote for help with their own personal circumstance? 

1

Brexit referendum says hello. 

Huge support amongst the population for the NHS, yet the polls appear to suggest Teresa Farage, whose party seems hell bent on dismantling the NHS will walk the General Election

There's a whole bunch of moronic lemmings in this country that vote against their best interests

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

It is an interesting point you raise here Dem and I believe we certainly need more people to vote not to necessarily improve their own lives but to improve the lives of those worse off. It is a good barometer in judging a society by how it treats its most vulnerable and the last few years we have increasingly treated ours like shit.

You can have the best of both worlds though. You can have the social conscience and want a better life for those worse off than you and you can also be a little selfish in ensuring that if you ever hit on hard times and say lose your job that there is state provision in place to help you. You can also help ensure that if you and yours become sick, become disabled, get old and frail and need social care etc that the public services are in great shape to help you. Also that the local school is adequately funded so if you ever have children/grandchildren etc they have access to a good education.

If to pay for all that then those of us with a reasonable standard of living, relative to many, have to pay a few more pennies towards it then why not. If that makes you slightly worse off but still relatively comfortable then why not happily go along with that. In the end it benefits all of us.

I think it is a major issue in this country now that we have been brainwashed into blaming any woes on the needy be they disabled, sick, old and frail, out of work etc or blame any woes on Johnny Foreigner. These people have been demonised and by doing so it has and will continue to allow the Government to get away with murder. We are one of the richest countries in the world. We can have a great NHS and other public services, we can afford to pay everyone a decent wage, we shouldn’t have a million plus people reliant on food banks, we shouldn’t have millions of children living in poverty, we shouldn’t have millions of working poor. Those things are all a choice by not having a fairer distribution of wealth. By too many people thinking of the pennies in their own pocket and not having a social conscience. You can certainly go a long way to changing that by the way you vote on June 8th because by voting for the Tories you will be getting more of the same and some.

You raise a lot of interesting points there mark. I can't speak for anyone else but my myself do not blame those who have disabilities are unable to work. Call me selfish but I like to think despite voting with my own interests at heart with family etc, I would like to think I do other things to help those in need because I have the extra cash to do so. If I am taxed a lot and have less money in my pocket I can't myself help those if I am financially to live within my means.

Unfortunately there seems to be no party that offers the correct balance between both.