BleedClaretAndBlue Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 1 minute ago, sidcow said: What does this mean please? That Ukraine have decided to make an incursion into Russia. Russia demonstrating again that it cant defend its own borders and will now have to redeploy men and resources from other areas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted August 6 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6 4 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: That Ukraine have decided to make an incursion into Russia. Russia demonstrating again that it cant defend its own borders and will now have to redeploy men and resources from other areas. What's happened? Haven't seen anything in the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 7 hours ago, sidcow said: What's happened? Haven't seen anything in the news. AUF sent one of their mechanised batallions across, and hit some helicopters, tanks and trucks it seems. Oh and captured 35 POWs. I don't get it personally - maybe to take resources away from Russia's other pushes? linky Quote The Russian Defence Ministry said that 300 Ukrainian soldiers, 11 tanks and more than 20 armoured personnel carriers attacked Russian units near the Russian state border in Kursk Oblast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 Looks like Walz will be very good for Ukraine if the dems win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted August 7 VT Supporter Share Posted August 7 6 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Looks like Walz will be very good for Ukraine if the dems win. Well duh, he has a brain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 1 hour ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Sure the conversation will go somewhat like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 (edited) About time tbh. There won't be anywhere near as much defensive obstacles there, and a good chip to trade with Russia. Russians getting what they're due. Edit: scratch that, they're even further in. 15kms in. Ukraine now has more of Kursk than Russia has of Kharkiv. Edited August 7 by magnkarl 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: About time tbh. There won't be anywhere near as much defensive obstacles there, and a good chip to trade with Russia. Russians getting what they're due. Edit: scratch that, they're even further in. 15kms in. Ukraine now has more of Kursk than Russia has of Kharkiv. What's the play here? Simply to get Russia to pull some troops out of Ukraine to have to defend their own terrority? What if Russia just ignore it, it's not like Ukraine are going to set up camp and keep part of Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted August 7 VT Supporter Share Posted August 7 20 minutes ago, ender4 said: What's the play here? Simply to get Russia to pull some troops out of Ukraine to have to defend their own terrority? What if Russia just ignore it, it's not like Ukraine are going to set up camp and keep part of Russia. Hmm. One repeated tactic we've seen from both sides is 'encirclement', or more often (I think), 'partial encirclement'. Full encirclement means that an enemy is surrounded on all sides and has no way out, so they may well attempt to fight to the death, which could be extremely damaging for the encircling forces. Partial Encirclement is when you surround the enemy and cut off resupply, but leave them a route to escape, so they have a certainty of death/wounding/capture if they stay, but a possibility of survival if they retreat, thus, for the encircling forces, hopefully avoiding a costly fight to the death from the encircled forces. Aaaanyway... Could this be partial encirclement, but a really wide one? Why try to do it locally, through heavily fortified obstacles, with the subsequent losses, when you can go wider, into Russia itself, which has almost no defences whatsoever, and cut off invading Russian forces from much further back, with much lighter casualties? To me this isn't about capturing Russian territory to keep it, but to choke resupply to Russian forces in Ukraine until they are forced to retreat or surrender due to lack of supplies. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 25 minutes ago, ender4 said: What's the play here? Simply to get Russia to pull some troops out of Ukraine to have to defend their own terrority? What if Russia just ignore it, it's not like Ukraine are going to set up camp and keep part of Russia. Maybe it’s a political move to have pressure on Putin from his own people for failing to secure the border 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 (edited) 3 hours ago, ender4 said: What's the play here? Simply to get Russia to pull some troops out of Ukraine to have to defend their own terrority? What if Russia just ignore it, it's not like Ukraine are going to set up camp and keep part of Russia. Prighozhin was well on his way to Moscow remember. He had much less at his disposal than Ukraine have. They can cause chaos in an area that is really brittle and pull troops away from Pokrovsk and Toretsk. Either way it puts pressure on Putin. Edited August 7 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleksnes Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 7 Moderator Share Posted August 7 2 hours ago, ender4 said: What's the play here? Simply to get Russia to pull some troops out of Ukraine to have to defend their own terrority? Yep, if the analysts are right - Russia has been making a lot of gains in Ukraine and the theory is Ukraine needs to get them to devote those forces, or some of them, to defend Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 2 hours ago, Anthony said: Hmm. One repeated tactic we've seen from both sides is 'encirclement', or more often (I think), 'partial encirclement'. Full encirclement means that an enemy is surrounded on all sides and has no way out, so they may well attempt to fight to the death, which could be extremely damaging for the encircling forces. Partial Encirclement is when you surround the enemy and cut off resupply, but leave them a route to escape, so they have a certainty of death/wounding/capture if they stay, but a possibility of survival if they retreat, thus, for the encircling forces, hopefully avoiding a costly fight to the death from the encircled forces. Aaaanyway... Could this be partial encirclement, but a really wide one? Why try to do it locally, through heavily fortified obstacles, with the subsequent losses, when you can go wider, into Russia itself, which has almost no defences whatsoever, and cut off invading Russian forces from much further back, with much lighter casualties? To me this isn't about capturing Russian territory to keep it, but to choke resupply to Russian forces in Ukraine until they are forced to retreat or surrender due to lack of supplies. Time will tell. That's a good idea, they can then come back down into Ukraine behind the minefields and say boo to the Russians manning the front line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 Also will be a lot more PR-issues surrounding dropping FAB500 glide bombs within Russia rather than on the heads of Ukrainian civilians. It's a solid play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 Could it be a land grab before peace talks? Like Ukraine gives back Kursk, Russia gives back Zaporizhia/Kherson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 54 minutes ago, Mozzavfc said: Could it be a land grab before peace talks? Like Ukraine gives back Kursk, Russia gives back Zaporizhia/Kherson Could be. It makes sense to attack where your enemy doesn't have sufficient defenses. Hopefully it signals a changing of the tide. Ukraine needs a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 (edited) 25 km deep now according to Russian sources. Russian warplanes unable to operate at high enough altitudes to drop glide bombs effectively due to Ukrainian air defenses in Sumy. 30km's to Kursk's nuclear power plant. One Gazprom pipeline node already captured, one that supplies Hungary, Austria and Slovakia apparently. Akhmat soldiers running away and conscripts who were guarding the border have surrendered in droves. Someone's sweating. Edited August 7 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 42 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Someone's sweating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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