hippo Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: The problem with this wizard scheme is the 'join NATO' part. There is a 0% chance that they will be offered NATO membership if doing so breaks a treaty with Russia. If NATO members wanted to risk nuclear war with Russia, we'd be fighting Russia across eastern Ukraine right now. We aren't doing that, and that's not by accident. Did NATO not make overtures to Ukraine about an opportunity to join NATO - but not as a full member ? (Genuine question) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: You wait until he starts in big school and realises there are uni sex toilets. One of the things I wonder is at what age do these peoples kids realise that their parent is a **** moron? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Genie said: One of the things I wonder is at what age do these peoples kids realise that their parent is a **** moron? I'd say it's a key milestone in pretty much anyones life when you realise your parent's aren't model human beings. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) It seems to me that no one thought about the long term of this in Kreml. Even if Russia does take Kiev and install a puppet government, the Ukranian people won't have it. If Russia is to control Ukraine they'll need an occupation force many times larger than the invasion force, it simply isn't feasible. In Chechnya they have a puppet leader installed and use a lot of troops to keep him there. It's not going to work in Ukraine. Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe, we can fund insurrections for years on end.. Edited February 25, 2022 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Media driving me a bit mad, i.e GMB. "Sanctions aren't working, while Boris Johnson does nothing the Ukranian people are dying". What do they want us to do, send the planes over an risk WW3. Cracks me up like they think they know everything about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: Media driving me a bit mad, i.e GMB. "Sanctions aren't working, while Boris Johnson does nothing the Ukranian people are dying". What do they want us to do, send the planes over an risk WW3. Cracks me up like they think they know everything about everything. It's a daunting prospect. I'd be more uncomfortable right now if the US/UK committed ground troops. But appeasing land grabbing dictators hasn't worked in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: Media driving me a bit mad, i.e GMB. "Sanctions aren't working, while Boris Johnson does nothing the Ukranian people are dying". What do they want us to do, send the planes over an risk WW3. Cracks me up like they think they know everything about everything. You can almost guarantee that they didn't know what swift was yesterday Same as everything in modern life if you can't see it or it's specifically detailed in an official announcement then it's either not happening or not working Where the twitter accounts showing videos of the sanctions? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted February 25, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Cracks me up like they think they know everything about everything. Aren't you the same person who twelve hours ago was posting moronic bullshit about gender-neutral toilets? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, magnkarl said: It seems to me that no one thought about the long term of this in Kreml. Even if Russia does take Kiev and install a puppet government, the Ukranian people won't have it. If Russia is to control Ukraine they'll need an occupation force many times larger than the invasion force, it simply isn't feasible. In Chechnya they have a puppet leader installed and use a lot of troops to keep him there. It's not going to work in Ukraine. Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe, we can fund insurrections for years on end.. Sorry but I think Putin has been planning this for around 8 years. The paralysis of the west demonstrates he has thought it through. If he has to govern Ukraine by fear or a police state he will have factored that in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 23 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: The problem with this wizard scheme is the 'join NATO' part. There is a 0% chance that they will be offered NATO membership if doing so breaks a treaty with Russia. If NATO members wanted to risk nuclear war with Russia, we'd be fighting Russia across eastern Ukraine right now. We aren't doing that, and that's not by accident. Who cares about the treaty with russia when they have just broken promises and lies? Russia would not have attacked ukraine if it was in nato. They would have so many countries after them they would get wiped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Aren't you the same person who twelve hours ago was posting moronic bullshit about gender-neutral toilets? Cant we keep this on subject instead of causing arguments? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, hippo said: Sorry but I think Putin has been planning this for around 8 years. The paralysis of the west demonstrates he has thought it through. If he has to govern Ukraine by fear or a police state he will have factored that in. Russia does not have the cash and resources to hold Ukraine for long. They'll bankrupt themselves. In world terms they aren't an economical power, especially if the sanctions work. China won't be Russia's bank as China is dependent on exports too. It's not a scenario a second rate Russia can win. In other news the Junta in Myanmar has sided with Russia. Who is a Junta again Putin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, hippo said: Sorry but I think Putin has been planning this for around 8 years. The paralysis of the west demonstrates he has thought it through. If he has to govern Ukraine by fear or a police state he will have factored that in. For sure. Ukraine under his control, or bogged down in a war, is a Ukraine that won't be joining Nato. Getting on though isn't he, you wonder if a few years of ostracising his cronies will see them move 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, hippo said: Sorry but I think Putin has been planning this for around 8 years. The paralysis of the west demonstrates he has thought it through. If he has to govern Ukraine by fear or a police state he will have factored that in. The only person who really kept him honest on this was Merkel. When she left it was going to be open season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I think even if russia takes over ukraine your going to see rebel groups who hate what russia has done start bombing russia and killing innocent civilians. Its going to be a endless cycle because of this maniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, Zatman said: The only person who really kept him honest on this was Merkel. When she left it was going to be open season He still would have done it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 17 minutes ago, hippo said: Did NATO not make overtures to Ukraine about an opportunity to join NATO - but not as a full member ? (Genuine question) Sort of. Ukraine's current status is that of an aspiring member, on a list (along with Bosnia & Herzegovina and Georgia) of countries that want to join but are not ready to do so. The next stage is receiving what is called a 'MAP' (Membership Action Plan) which states the steps that need to be taken before membership, and some NATO members (mostly Eastern European, but also the UK & US) have been keen to give Ukraine a MAP as soon as possible. You have to decide for yourself how likely this is, and whether it would be a good idea, but NATO also has a longstanding policy of not admitting countries with territorial disputes, and you can see that this does create an incentive for Russia to *create* territorial disputes to prevent their membership. For that reason (among others), I don't see a path for Ukraine receiving NATO membership in the short or medium term. 9 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Who cares about the treaty with russia when they have just broken promises and lies? Russia would not have attacked ukraine if it was in nato. They would have so many countries after them they would get wiped out. Any world leader who does not want to be responsible for a nuclear war that potentially threatens all life on the planet, which hopefully will be all of them for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Russian ground forces are now on the outskirts of Kyiv: (video is not graphic) The Ukrainian MOD is calling on citizens to hand over drones, and to make molotov cocktails: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 17 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Russia does not have the cash and resources to hold Ukraine for long. They'll bankrupt themselves. In world terms they aren't an economical power, especially if the sanctions work. China won't be Russia's bank as China is dependent on exports too. It's not a scenario a second rate Russia can win. In other news the Junta in Myanmar has sided with Russia. Who is a Junta again Putin? They are the 11th biggest economy in the world. And have stock piled dollars amongst other things. They supply 40% of Europe's gas. Russia can hold its own for a good few years yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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