Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[avfc1982am]

I sometimes question myself when private thoughts turn to inflicting the same carnage on Russians as they have on Ukrainians. An eye for an eye. I realise the implications and consequences of this pattern of thinking but I cannot help thinking until Ukrainians adopt this attitude Russia will continue to play this game without fear of retribution.  

You can never negotiate with bullies. The only language they understand is fear and violence pure and simple. It may be uncomfortable for some and harsh but imo Ukraine should send missiles into Russian Cities. It may actually get the apolitical  and ignorant something to think about when their houses are being flattened. It will most definitely put more pressure on Putin if Russian Cities are being attacked. There was a time when this happening may have united Russia but I definitely don't see bringing Russians together now, but instead tear the Country further apart. 

[Guest av1]

Bombing Russian cities would almost certainly result in the West stopping the supply of weapons to Ukraine. 
 

Not sure that’s a wise move mate. 

[Genie]

10 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

I sometimes question myself when private thoughts turn to inflicting the same carnage on Russians as they have on Ukrainians. An eye for an eye. I realise the implications and consequences of this pattern of thinking but I cannot help thinking until Ukrainians adopt this attitude Russia will continue to play this game without fear of retribution.  

You can never negotiate with bullies. The only language they understand is fear and violence pure and simple. It may be uncomfortable for some and harsh but imo Ukraine should send missiles into Russian Cities. It may actually get the apolitical  and ignorant something to think about when their houses are being flattened. It will most definitely put more pressure on Putin if Russian Cities are being attacked. There was a time when this happening may have united Russia but I definitely don't see bringing Russians together now, but instead tear the Country further apart. 

 

1 minute ago, av1 said:

Bombing Russian cities would almost certainly result in the West stopping the supply of weapons to Ukraine. 
 

Not sure that’s a wise move mate. 

Both valid which makes it so frustrating.

If Zelensky made a big deal of the fact that Ukraine would begin to retaliate in the same manner as Russia then I wonder how long Russian people remain quiet on the invasion. 

Every new explosion in Russia is a result of an act of terrorism by their leader. 

It would be an interesting dynamic shift. 

[KentVillan]

I don’t think attacking Russia with NATO-supplied weapons is an option, or a smart move. As frustrating as it is.

[il_serpente]

If Ukraine sends missiles to Russian cities Putin will say, "See, I told you Ukraine and the West are trying to eliminate our Russia and this is why we had to have an SMO," and most of the Russian public would believe him.   It would just strengthen support for the war and possible mobilization, not put pressure on him to withdraw.

[Genie]

11 minutes ago, il_serpente said:

If Ukraine sends missiles to Russian cities Putin will say, "See, I told you Ukraine and the West are trying to eliminate our Russia and this is why we had to have an SMO," and most of the Russian public would believe him.   It would just strengthen support for the war and possible mobilization, not put pressure on him to withdraw.

It’s obviously hypothetical, but Zelensky would have to make a big deal of it so the people in Russia knew it was coming.

Then the ball is in Putin’s court, does he dare? Then could he candle the backlash?

[ender4]

40 minutes ago, Genie said:

 

Then the ball is in Putin’s court, does he dare? Then could he candle the backlash?

Putin gets on my wick. 

[villa89]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

Russia do it because there’s little in terms of punishment for doing it.

Exactly. I said much earlier that NATO should have entered the war on the Ukrainian side as soon as the invasion happened. Russia would have been blown out of the water by overwhelming military power and routed. In reality this should be the role of the UN but that organisation serves no purpose. 

Instead we have a slow steady attritional war where thousands die, civilians get bombed, people get displaced,etc. for many years. Russia is largely unaffected by it and can just plod along as they please. 

It's a disgrace in this day and age things like this still happens. 

[Genie]

11 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Exactly. I said much earlier that NATO should have entered the war on the Ukrainian side as soon as the invasion happened. Russia would have been blown out of the water by overwhelming military power and routed. In reality this should be the role of the UN but that organisation serves no purpose. 

Instead we have a slow steady attritional war where thousands die, civilians get bombed, people get displaced,etc. for many years. Russia is largely unaffected by it and can just plod along as they please. 

It's a disgrace in this day and age things like this still happens. 

The only problem with that is that if Nato are going to fight for non-Nato members then there’s less incentive to pay for membership.

They could agree to my suggestion (they won’t) by allowing Ukraine to retaliate like-for-like with their weapons. Big campaign by Zelensky, a change of tack, no longer will Ukraine allow Russia to pound their non-military sites without repercussion.

[avfc1982am]

1 hour ago, av1 said:

Bombing Russian cities would almost certainly result in the West stopping the supply of weapons to Ukraine. 
 

Not sure that’s a wise move mate. 

I disagree. They've been sending missiles into Russia for over 12 months now. Just not indiscriminately like the Russians have or as often. The notion Ukraine haven't attacked Russia itself up to now though is nonsense because they've been attackng logistical and military targets. It's been happening albeit on a very small scale.

Ukraine are in debt to the max so nobody is pulling the plug and letting Russia stomp their way to victory with no return on the debt. The West will not stop the flow of arms no matter what rhetoric is spewed out. Of course, nobody is going to come out and say it's okay to attack Russia, quite the opposite if your being diplomatic and playing things down. However, behind the scenes they'll still support Ukraine because everyone is in too deep now.  

 

[avfc1982am]

29 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Exactly. I said much earlier that NATO should have entered the war on the Ukrainian side as soon as the invasion happened. Russia would have been blown out of the water by overwhelming military power and routed. In reality this should be the role of the UN but that organisation serves no purpose. 

Instead we have a slow steady attritional war where thousands die, civilians get bombed, people get displaced,etc. for many years. Russia is largely unaffected by it and can just plod along as they please. 

It's a disgrace in this day and age things like this still happens. 

Money and Politricks

[villa89]

49 minutes ago, Genie said:

The only problem with that is that if Nato are going to fight for non-Nato members then there’s less incentive to pay for membership.

Ukraine should have been made a member as soon as the war started. Give Russia 24 hours to retreat or else it's game on. 

[Anthony]

Re the targeting of this restaurant...

We are often told that Russian missiles aren't accurate and can't hit anything more specific than 'that city over there - ish', so which is it?

They fired at the city and just happened to hit a restaurant, or they targeted the restaurant.

Russian armed forces obviously scumbags whichever it is, but the media can't have it both ways.

[VillaJ100]

21 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Re the targeting of this restaurant...

We are often told that Russian missiles aren't accurate and can't hit anything more specific than 'that city over there - ish', so which is it?

They fired at the city and just happened to hit a restaurant, or they targeted the restaurant.

Russian armed forces obviously scumbags whichever it is, but the media can't have it both ways.

Probably just aimed it at 'that district' and whatever it hit, it hit. Russia has a chronic shortage of chips. China and India are probably supplying some no doubt but they are less 'precision military guidance' chips and more 'singing cappuccino machine' ones.

[KentVillan]

2 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

I disagree. They've been sending missiles into Russia for over 12 months now. Just not indiscriminately like the Russians have or as often. The notion Ukraine haven't attacked Russia itself up to now though is nonsense because they've been attackng logistical and military targets. It's been happening albeit on a very small scale.

Ukraine are in debt to the max so nobody is pulling the plug and letting Russia stomp their way to victory with no return on the debt. The West will not stop the flow of arms no matter what rhetoric is spewed out. Of course, nobody is going to come out and say it's okay to attack Russia, quite the opposite if your being diplomatic and playing things down. However, behind the scenes they'll still support Ukraine because everyone is in too deep now.  

 

Isn't this very specifically limited to things that directly relate to the invasion of Ukraine, though? Escalating that to attacking Russian cities in tit-for-tat attacks would be a gigantic escalation?

[chrisp65]

People talk a good war.

 

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Isn't this very specifically limited to things that directly relate to the invasion of Ukraine, though? Escalating that to attacking Russian cities in tit-for-tat attacks would be a gigantic escalation?

It is and it isn’t. 

It’s a big step from where they are now, but as you say it’s tit for tat, it’s just mimicking what the Russians have been doing (and getting away with).

Edit: The idea is not about blowing up Russian civilians, the theory is that it is made clear that it will happen in response to Russia targeting Ukrainian civilians and therefore should hopefully act as a deterrent and stop Russia just randomly bombing shit.

It would also act as a way to turn the people of Russia against Putin if he made a conscious decision to send a missile into a shopping mall or hospital. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Genie

[Mandy Lifeboats]

The aftermath of the restaurant attack was caught on video.  There are a lot of American accents.  There are also some men with tattoos that suggest they belonged to elite Western regiments.  

I find it hard to defend Russia's actions.  But in this instance I think they hit exactly what they were aiming at. 

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

The aftermath of the restaurant attack was caught on video.  There are a lot of American accents.  There are also some men with tattoos that suggest they belonged to elite Western regiments.  

I find it hard to defend Russia's actions.  But in this instance I think they hit exactly what they were aiming at. 

Apparently it is a mecca for journalists. The BBC reporter said pretty much every journalist covering the war would have been in there. 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

7 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Apparently it is a mecca for journalists. The BBC reporter said pretty much every journalist covering the war would have been in there. 

Very much.  

I would also guess that those journalists have private security made up of ex- military.  

Ukraine have arrested a man for giving photographs of the restaurant to Russian forces. 

It was targeted and hit for a reason that we will never know.