Mozzavfc Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I think the fast jets are a bit of a non starter, due to the amount of time needed to train up the pilots. Ukraine needs support now for the spring offensive, not in 8 months time when the pilots are ready. Unless the plan is for us to buy MiGs and gift them to Ukraine, which I assume they are ready to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Mozzavfc said: I think the fast jets are a bit of a non starter, due to the amount of time needed to train up the pilots. Ukraine needs support now for the spring offensive, not in 8 months time when the pilots are ready. Unless the plan is for us to buy MiGs and gift them to Ukraine, which I assume they are ready to fly. Supposedly Poland snuck a few of their old MIGs over to Ukraine. They were disassembled and sent with some shipments of ‘spare parts’ to be reassembled as complete planes on the Ukrainian side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 7 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: A decent report, quite sad though The one woman being interviewed hit the nail on the head. "Russians believe in the state more than themselves". It's savage how many Russians actually think Ukrainians want to be part of Russia and that they have a god given right to enforce Russian rule on Ukraine. And then the one guy says "I'm well educated and Ukraine should be part of Russia". Absolute prat, it didn't even occur to him Ukrainians might want to decide how to live. Civility has levels and unfortunately for many Russians they're stuck on level one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post avfc1982am Posted February 22, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 22, 2023 Moderator Share Posted February 22, 2023 6 hours ago, Anthony said: If you have air superiority then aircraft are pretty much invulnerable. Not true 5 hours ago, sidcow said: I think Russia has air superiority in the traditional sense, they have overwhelmingly more aircraft and better aircraft than Ukraine. That’s not how air superiority is defined. To give more context to my post, air superiority is control/dominance of the skies and air power over an area (and therefore by definition, over the opponents air forces). But air superiority doesn’t remotely render you “pretty much invulnerable”. If ground or naval forces have the ability (and in this case they do) to hit your aircraft with Manpads and Patriots and etc. Then you’re very much vulnerable, still. Neither Russia nor Ukraine have air superiority. Neither control the skies, both are at high risk of losing aircraft from enemy actions. Russia is launching stand off missiles from aircraft well outside the combat areas and both sides are limiting how many sorties they fly because of the risk levels. One of the not really discussed or covered reasons why the West hasn’t supplied jets is that in order to reduce the risk of them being shot down and captured by Russia they’d need ideally both onboard IR and Electronic counter-measures and specialist AECM* platforms, plus SEADS* and a whole lot more to be going on at the same time as fighter and ground recce/attack ops. Like with Navy, it’s all about Force mix. Suppression of Enemy Air Defences Active Electronic Countermeasures 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Russian guy just on channel 4 news doing an interview via video link. There’s just no basis for any reasonable discussion with these people, they’re totally and utterly brainwashed, arrogant beyond belief and frankly, stupid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 hours ago, Chindie said: It's not as simple as we've got all these weapons, here take these and some of those nice shiny planes too. I believe the main problem with any of the high ticket items (MBT / Planes) is purely down to logistics and the support of the weapons' (Weird Fuel / specific ammunition) and as you say, the training to deliver all of this, all of the time. It's when things go wrong or break, repair ability is key and will be a big difference (Russia just leave the stuff as they have zero clue what to do with a breakage) I think the training for the weapons' is either completed or in progress like a production line. Once they get all the logistics ready then they can push back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Prozghin running a dangerous line calling out the russian defence ministry even though you can be sure Wagner is a long way down the list when it comes to getting supplies. He should bolt with all his I'll gotten gains before he has to use a set of stairs in Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 So out of fear that they'll get booted out of their new venue the Putin Shill association won't tell anyone where their pro-Putin rally is taking place in two days. I'd love it if anyone could figure out where it is so the pressure could be applied again, then maybe they can host the event where it belongs, at the Russian embassy or the circus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 15 hours ago, villa89 said: Prozghin running a dangerous line calling out the russian defence ministry even though you can be sure Wagner is a long way down the list when it comes to getting supplies. He should bolt with all his I'll gotten gains before he has to use a set of stairs in Russia. He's been running his mouth the last couple of weeks to anyone that will listen. Seems he and Wagner now feel they were used anyway and are pissed off nobody cares about them anymore which was always going to be the case when you start calling out the military for being shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, magnkarl said: So out of fear that they'll get booted out of their new venue the Putin Shill association won't tell anyone where their pro-Putin rally is taking place in two days. I'd love it if anyone could figure out where it is so the pressure could be applied again, then maybe they can host the event where it belongs, at the Russian embassy or the circus. Hahaha..... 2 days before and thy're scared to reveal the location because they know it'll get shut down. Bunch of clowns will end up in a car park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: Hahaha..... 2 days before and thy're scared to reveal the location because they know it'll get shut down. Bunch of clowns will end up in a car park. They are using their right to free speech to promote Putin… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted February 23, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2023 17 hours ago, blandy said: Not true That’s not how air superiority is defined. To give more context to my post, air superiority is control/dominance of the skies and air power over an area (and therefore by definition, over the opponents air forces). But air superiority doesn’t remotely render you “pretty much invulnerable”. If ground or naval forces have the ability (and in this case they do) to hit your aircraft with Manpads and Patriots and etc. Then you’re very much vulnerable, still. Neither Russia nor Ukraine have air superiority. Neither control the skies, both are at high risk of losing aircraft from enemy actions. Russia is launching stand off missiles from aircraft well outside the combat areas and both sides are limiting how many sorties they fly because of the risk levels. One of the not really discussed or covered reasons why the West hasn’t supplied jets is that in order to reduce the risk of them being shot down and captured by Russia they’d need ideally both onboard IR and Electronic counter-measures and specialist AECM* platforms, plus SEADS* and a whole lot more to be going on at the same time as fighter and ground recce/attack ops. Like with Navy, it’s all about Force mix. Suppression of Enemy Air Defences Active Electronic Countermeasures My understanding of how it works (or doesn't) is fine. I could certainly do better on getting my terms right though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 17 minutes ago, Genie said: They are using their right to free speech to promote Putin… we all know they're Putin shills. I believe this is the 4th attempt at trying to arrange this little get together hence why the venue is now not being advertised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Genie said: They are using their right to free speech to promote Putin… Considering that many labour MP's are still well involved in this mess through STW, it's a sobering thought. It's a sad state of affairs when you hate the West so much that you can't see that your paymaster is committing genocide on all fronts. Here's a lovely band of Labour MPs that don't know right from wrong on Russia, and even after Feb 24th decided that it's still not Russia's fault. Diane Abbott, John McDonnell, Richard Burgon, Ian Lavery, Beth Winter, Zara Sultana, Bell(end) Ribeiro-Addy, Aspana Begum, Mich Whitley, Tahir Ali and Ian Mearns. Edited February 23, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post choffer Posted February 23, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2023 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walmley_Villa Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Genie said: They are using their right to free speech to promote Putin… A meeting of the Quislings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted February 23, 2023 Moderator Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Anthony said: My understanding of how it works (or doesn't) is fine. I could certainly do better on getting my terms right though. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply ignorance or lack of understanding (but probably did). This thread is obviously read by people with different experiences and different areas where we each know something or nothing, and sometimes people try and expand a bit, or tell us something we (collectively or individually) might not know, or just post a question or a thought. That's allI was trying to do - expand a bit, with context, on something a couple of people had written. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 46 minutes ago, choffer said: Is that Elon going for a meeting in the red car in the middle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 A vote about "peace" and the Ukrainian conflict at the UN today. The US is fully onboard, so I guess that means talking about peace no longer makes you a horrible Putin loving reprobate. Should lead to plenty of confusion as people adapt to the new playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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