Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, chrisp65 said:

I would suspect its the other way around.

I doubt they’ve deliberately allowed troops to die to get better kit. I’d suspect they’ve been asking for the better kit all along and its a lot easier for the media to sell that story when the war isn’t going in a straightforward manner. I’d be fairly sure the endlessly positive message of Russian retreat and incompetence has not helped persuade western leaders to reach deeper in to their pockets. 

I'm not suggesting for one second they would deliberately sacrifice troops, but a strategic withdrawal at a time you think your supporters maybe wavering over key equipment supplies so you can say "see, look what's happening" might be a clever bit of politics. 

[Mr_Dogg]

3 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I'm not suggesting for one second they would deliberately sacrifice troops, but a strategic withdrawal at a time you think your supporters maybe wavering over key equipment supplies so you can say "see, look what's happening" might be a clever bit of politics. 

I would suggest it's based on intelligence that Russia are not going away and are planning some big moves where tanks are needed to counteract.

[avfc1982am]

8 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I'm not suggesting for one second they would deliberately sacrifice troops, but a strategic withdrawal at a time you think your supporters maybe wavering over key equipment supplies so you can say "see, look what's happening" might be a clever bit of politics. 

Ukrainian forces have been using Strategic withdrawal manoeuvres since the start of the conflict. Very similar to a scorched earth tactics employed in many wars in order to stretch enemy logistics and deny opposing forces any comfort in the land they occupy. They don't have a Russian mentality of grinding troops into the ground and throwing more and more bodies into battle. Especially after several years of Western training methods.

Everything Russia take is either rubble and dust, with very little chance of being able to hold long term. Very little chance of rebuilding or consolidating for any lengthy period, and very little chance Russian troops will want to be stationed in Ukraine indefinitely. 

Ukrainians forces have been really clever in the way they are opposing Russia imo. Hold what you can with minimal forces, use the rest to shoot and scoot and withdraw when there is little to hold onto. It's the reason this conflict is now approaching the one year mark. With added Russian incompetence of course.   

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, limpid said:

Do you have a link? I'm curious how long training will take.

All over the BBC News app. 

[avfc1982am]

Liberation or eradication?!

 

[villa89]

The zero reaction to these war crimes by NATO and the UN is a sad indictment of humanity.  Two world wars and we've learnt the square root of f all. 

[Genie]

1 hour ago, villa89 said:

The zero reaction to these war crimes by NATO and the UN is a sad indictment of humanity.  Two world wars and we've learnt the square root of f all. 

We’ll be hearing about “should have done more” years after this disgusting war is finished.

 

[bickster]

2 hours ago, villa89 said:

The zero reaction to these war crimes by NATO and the UN is a sad indictment of humanity.  Two world wars and we've learnt the square root of f all. 

Not sure why you think NATO can have a reaction other that what it is already doing

[villa89]

26 minutes ago, bickster said:

Not sure why you think NATO can have a reaction other that what it is already doing

Could send in some fighter jets and the elite weapons. War has been going for months and only now are they talking about sending a few tanks.

[sidcow]

7 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Could send in some fighter jets and the elite weapons. War has been going for months and only now are they talking about sending a few tanks.

Are you confusing NATO with individual Governments? 

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Could send in some fighter jets and the elite weapons. War has been going for months and only now are they talking about sending a few tanks.

How long would it take a Ukrainian pilot to train on NATO fighters do you think? There's also a risk of capture of the best weapons and they really do need to avoid that.

Ukraine is already being equipped with weaponry that is generations ahead of what Russia is currently using. There aren't any weapons that are going to win this war in days unless NATO and its troops itself got involved and that is highly likely to start WWIII

[Genie]

We keep sending more and more “game changing” weapons. 

Russia is using wind up toys and water bombs… yet the war goes on.

I really wish we’d get more proper, unbiased accounts of what is going on.

[Enda]

3 hours ago, villa89 said:

The zero reaction to these war crimes by NATO and the UN is a sad indictment of humanity.  Two world wars and we've learnt the square root of f all. 

My takeaway from WWI is that countries need to be careful avoiding all out wars from regional conflicts.

[magnkarl]

1 hour ago, Enda said:

My takeaway from WWI is that countries need to be careful avoiding all out wars from regional conflicts.

My takeaway from WW2 is that we let someone do what Putin is doing now at the cost of millions of lives. We could and should have delivered tanks long ago. It’s what most people in NATO have supported since February. On average there’s a 70%+ approval rate in NATO countries to give more. Some politicians have been holding back for over half a year. 

Instead we’re afraid of upsetting the guy who already threw his baby out with the bath water. 

[Demitri_C]

Been watching and reading alot of  peter zeihan pieces. He really knows his shit about this war

[Enda]

57 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

My takeaway from WW2 is that we let someone do what Putin is doing now at the cost of millions of lives. We could and should have delivered tanks long ago. It’s what most people in NATO have supported since February. On average there’s a 70%+ approval rate in NATO countries to give more. Some politicians have been holding back for over half a year. 

Instead we’re afraid of upsetting the guy who already threw his baby out with the bath water. 

I agree the lesson from WWII is inevitable war should be fought early.

But the lesson from WWI is, for me at least, that you don’t go all-in and escalate things.

It’s almost as if these things are complicated!

[magnkarl]

24 minutes ago, Enda said:

I agree the lesson from WWII is inevitable war should be fought early.

But the lesson from WWI is, for me at least, that you don’t go all-in and escalate things.

It’s almost as if these things are complicated!

It’s not complicated. One guy is holding a nation hostage using criminals and terror bombing, all the while using ethno-fascist principles for why everything is his. This conflict isn’t even remotely close to WW1, so comparing it to it and the reaction we had then is of no use.

What Putin is doing is akin to Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and the other right wing loonie dictators who were left for far too long to inflict their miserable stamps on humanity. If Ukraine had been given Bradley’s, leopards and other similar models in June they’d mop up the rest of Putin’s forces when Kharkiv was liberated.

This war isn’t about being cautious. Putin had put up red lines since feb, and we keep crossing them at a snail’s pace. All the while Putin bombs civilians into oblivion right on our doorstep.

The only complication here is how many weak willed, propaganda-fuelled shills Putin has corrupted in the West who keeps arguing that this is somehow just and that we need to be careful. No one needs to be careful with bullies, they only respond to being beaten back. We’ve tried Macron and Scholz way, look how that went.

Edited January 14, 2023 by magnkarl

[Enda]

4 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

It’s not complicated.

Okay.

[bickster]

This is worth 12 minutes of your time, It's a translated interview with Andrey Piontkovsky, aRussian mathemetician, political writer, anylyst and former Putin opposition activist, who has been living in exile

This is about what is going on in Russia behind the headlines and how the warlords like Kadyrov (Chechens), Prigozhin (Wagner) and others including Shiogu (Minister of Defence) are assembling private armies in readiness for the inevitable civil war that will erupt when (not if) Russia loses and Putin is gone. It references some things I hadn't heard, like Kadyrovs New Years address where he said that they had commited enough troops already and some I had but hadn't realised the significance like when Prigozhin was taking by the Russian bodybags and then went to meeet Ukrainian POWs and saying this story needs to be over (most accounts foucused on the bodybags bit). I also didn't realise that Shoigu was also buiding a private army

The idea here is that these warlords know the war is lost and they are preparing for the aftermath. This was talked about some time back and it hasn't really been mentioned much since

 

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, magnkarl said:

It’s not complicated. One guy is holding a nation hostage using criminals and terror bombing, all the while using ethno-fascist principles for why everything is his. This conflict isn’t even remotely close to WW1, so comparing it to it and the reaction we had then is of no use.

What Putin is doing is akin to Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and the other right wing loonie dictators who were left for far too long to inflict their miserable stamps on humanity. If Ukraine had been given Bradley’s, leopards and other similar models in June they’d mop up the rest of Putin’s forces when Kharkiv was liberated.

This war isn’t about being cautious. Putin had put up red lines since feb, and we keep crossing them at a snail’s pace. All the while Putin bombs civilians into oblivion right on our doorstep.

The only complication here is how many weak willed, propaganda-fuelled shills Putin has corrupted in the West who keeps arguing that this is somehow just and that we need to be careful. No one needs to be careful with bullies, they only respond to being beaten back. We’ve tried Macron and Scholz way, look how that went.

Those guys didn't have Nuclear weapons though. We clearly have learned that lesson - what's Saddam Hussein up to these days? But you just can't steam in on a seemingly unhinged individual who has a big red button.