Tayls Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 13 minutes ago, Genie said: They’ll probably blame Ukraine for the missile strikes. That’s true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bielesibub Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Genie said: It’s seems too easy… should I be nervous? yes, possibly. I honestly don't think Putin is stupid, I hope I'm wrong and I think Russia has more in the tank (forgive the pun) when it comes to military equipment. Putin is a man who has managed to keep himself at the top, and quite possibly done enough to keep himself there for many years more (providing he doesn't fall out of a window or anything like that). As Ukraine liberates more of the regions taken by Russia, and especially the areas that are now viewed as Russia by Russia through the 'fair and democratic' referendums. Putin will be given more physical and real things to push into his propaganda machine, by which I mean things like 'hey fellow Russians, do you now realise that Ukraine has is now occupying parts of our dearly beloved motherland? oh and by the way, have a look at these photos, they show the death, damage and destruction NATO ordnance has done - ON OUR SOIL.' Providing he hasn't shot his bolt by calling up 300k unwilling civilians, he'll up his rhetoric and probably gain stronger support from the people so they can go out and protect their mother land not just from the Ukraine Army but also from the big bad NATO and the West. *For a run down (for free and legitimately - there are companies out there whose raison d'être is this getting this info right) what Russia might have in terms of what they might have in their tank, have a look at Global Security.org - Russian military 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 3, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bielesibub said: yes, possibly. I honestly don't think Putin is stupid, I hope I'm wrong and I think Russia has more in the tank (forgive the pun) when it comes to military equipment. Putin is a man who has managed to keep himself at the top, and quite possibly done enough to keep himself there for many years more (providing he doesn't fall out of a window or anything like that). As Ukraine liberates more of the regions taken by Russia, and especially the areas that are now viewed as Russia by Russia through the 'fair and democratic' referendums. Putin will be given more physical and real things to push into his propaganda machine, by which I mean things like 'hey fellow Russians, do you now realise that Ukraine has is now occupying parts of our dearly beloved motherland? oh and by the way, have a look at these photos, they show the death, damage and destruction NATO ordnance has done - ON OUR SOIL.' Providing he hasn't shot his bolt by calling up 300k unwilling civilians, he'll up his rhetoric and probably gain stronger support from the people so they can go out and protect their mother land not just from the Ukraine Army but also from the big bad NATO and the West. *For a run down (for free and legitimately - there are companies out there whose raison d'être is this getting this info right) what Russia might have in terms of what they might have in their tank, have a look at Global Security.org - Russian military More support from the Russian people who are literally leaving their country in droves or laying down their arms and running away the first chance they get? I don't think so. Edited October 3, 2022 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bielesibub Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, sidcow said: More support from the Russian people who are literally leaving their country in droves or laying down their arms and running away the first chance they get? I don't think so. they can't all leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 42 minutes ago, Genie said: Haha. I am probably giving the Russians far too much credit but my fear is it’s some clever honey trap. Fill the area with Ukrainian forces then missile the shit out of it. Considering Russia is now using S-300 missiles as ground missiles I don't think you should be worried. Russian missiles have proven completely unreliable and from what they're currently using to hit Ukraine I doubt there are many modern ones left. The main question I have is whether RU troops will mass surrender instead of running back over the border to get 10 years in prison? I'd take POW status in Europe any day of the week over Putin's gulag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 3, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2022 22 minutes ago, bielesibub said: they can't all leave Which is hardly going to endear them to the powers that be even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post magnkarl Posted October 3, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 3, 2022 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 3, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2022 27 minutes ago, bielesibub said: and I think Russia has more in the tank (forgive the pun) when it comes to military equipment Do you have any evidence for this? No-one else has but you keep saying it. Their newest weapons do not work as they have claimed. Take the T-14 Armata as an example. Right now they are supposed to have had a "test batch" delivered of 100 taqnks. They were meant to be delivered by 2020 with the full amount of the initial order to be delivered by 2025. By 2021 only 16 Armarta platform vehicles had been delivered and that includes the T-15 (an IFV based on the Armata platform). In softening the blow of the lack of their new wonder weapons, the Russian MOD claimed there was no rush because the T-90 and T-72 was more than a match for its NATO counterparts. Well the evidence there is plain to see, It isn't. This is all before the war and sanctions. They couldn't build them before that, they certainly can't now. The SU-34 is rarely seen over Ukraine and when it is, they also get shot down. Since the start of the war they've lost at least 14 of them, thats over 10% of the total they have and that is their most modern active combat aircraft. The other two newer aircradt really are in test only. They have 5 SU-57 and 6 MIG-35. So worried about the SU-57's capability are the Russians it's been used sparingly and only ever fires at targets from inside Russian Airspace, they won't risk it over Ukrainian skies. There really are no new weapons he's keeping up his sleeve 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, bickster said: Their newest weapons do not work as they have claimed. Weapons' are only as good as the people using them and the training they have received. Russia doesn't even have people trained for their current weapons' as far as I can tell, I doubt Russia has got anything good up it's sleeve that will scare anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 It'd be great to get these guys as POWs. I'm sure Kadyrov is just lying through his teeth, but I would love to see his sons on TV in Ukraine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bielesibub Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 9 minutes ago, bickster said: Do you have any evidence for this? No-one else has but you keep saying it. Thanks for noticing that I've said it and keep saying it, its possibly my MS brain but I think I've mentioned it twice (apologies if I've become repetitive, if I've become repetitive...). The first time I mentioned this I think I said that this was based on info that was a few years old (I'm sure you can find it out,) but hey this is meant to be a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 3, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, magnkarl said: It'd be great to get these guys as POWs. I'm sure Kadyrov is just lying through his teeth, but I would love to see his sons on TV in Ukraine. It's only 2 days since he asked Putin to use nukes on Ukraine but he's going to send his sons there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 3, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 16 minutes ago, bickster said: Do you have any evidence for this? No-one else has but you keep saying it. Their newest weapons do not work as they have claimed. Take the T-14 Armata as an example. Right now they are supposed to have had a "test batch" delivered of 100 taqnks. They were meant to be delivered by 2020 with the full amount of the initial order to be delivered by 2025. By 2021 only 16 Armarta platform vehicles had been delivered and that includes the T-15 (an IFV based on the Armata platform). In softening the blow of the lack of their new wonder weapons, the Russian MOD claimed there was no rush because the T-90 and T-72 was more than a match for its NATO counterparts. Well the evidence there is plain to see, It isn't. This is all before the war and sanctions. They couldn't build them before that, they certainly can't now. The SU-34 is rarely seen over Ukraine and when it is, they also get shot down. Since the start of the war they've lost at least 14 of them, thats over 10% of the total they have and that is their most modern active combat aircraft. The other two newer aircradt really are in test only. They have 5 SU-57 and 6 MIG-35. So worried about the SU-57's capability are the Russians it's been used sparingly and only ever fires at targets from inside Russian Airspace, they won't risk it over Ukrainian skies. There really are no new weapons he's keeping up his sleeve They did deploy one terminator (T-15) to Sieverodonetsk, last I heard it was deployed before the Ukrainians counter attacked. I guess it's history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 3, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, magnkarl said: They did deploy one terminator (T-15) to Sieverodonetsk, 2 working in tandem. No reports pf them being hit though. They soon just disappeared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted October 3, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: The main question I have is whether RU troops will mass surrender instead of running back over the border to get 10 years in prison? I'd take POW status in Europe any day of the week over Putin's gulag. Bet the ex Russian prisoners would jump at the chance to be integrated into the EU. Didn't Castro unload his prisons into the USA during the Cuban missile stand off, or was that just a film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 29 minutes ago, bickster said: 2 working in tandem. No reports pf them being hit though. They soon just disappeared Wouldn't be surprised if they failed and had to be dragged over the border tbh. A bit like the T-90 which seems to be even more prone to blowing up when hit than T-72. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) Going well, this. Edited October 3, 2022 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 3, 2022 Moderator Share Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: Going well, this. re the "Also Russia: we don't actually know what our new borders now are" thing. That's quite useful for them. If Ukraine takes more land back, they can pretend "oh, no that bit wasn't where our border was - we're not arsed about that bit". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 3 hours ago, bielesibub said: they can't all leave We just need as much as possible to leave from a certain segment I think, any male between 20 and 39 for example. (If they take wife's and children with them all the better). If they are working full time also, this is a bonus as that output stops immediately and the skill set leaves. If we add these to the 500K who have allready left (Brain drain 500k, with degrees etc) and then add to the Russian soldiers allready dead or wounded. (50k?) and then add the people who managed to leave after mobilization announcement (Who knows, 200 k maybe). I would hope it takes a million out of this demographic, this will hurt Russia for generations to come (As with WWII). There are only so many useful people in this demographic, Putin has managed to make sure the cream of the crop has either left or is leaving. The more the better, they will never recover. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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