Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[Davkaus]

8 minutes ago, Awol said:

 

The risks of confronting Russia are real and we have to be honest about that, but the pigs doing this need to **** die. They are the Nazis our grandfathers fought.

Interesting thought experiment, what do we do in WW2 if Hitler had nukes? We'd have been obliged to intervene if he invaded Poland, which he wouldn't with a NATO type agreement, but the holocaust? Yeah man, fill your boots. We'd not have been able to do a thing.

Nuclear deterrents have possibly been a key driver of an incredible period of peace between major world powers, but in the hands of someone with the intent to do harm, they leave us absolutely no option.

In a just world, Putin and every single one of his men, from commanders down to foot soldiers, would hang for what they've done, but I don't see any possible path to anyone being held accountable for this.

[Genie]

Are China still staying out of this? 

[Xela]

28 minutes ago, Genie said:

Are China still staying out of this? 

China only cares about China

I note the UAE are providing a safe haven for Russian sanctioned individuals. 

[avfc1982am]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

Telegram is full of normal Russian soldiers and special forces horrifically torturing Ukrainians, both POW and civilians. That includes ISIS style beheadings with heads thrown in cooking pots - to the videographers amusement. 

There needs to be some really serious reality checks in the west about the nature of what is happening in Ukraine. This isn’t just ‘something that happens in war’, it has the stench of genuine evil. 

The risks of confronting Russia are real and we have to be honest about that, but the pigs doing this need to **** die. They are the Nazis our grandfathers fought.

Awol, sorry to piss on your bonfire but what you are describing above goes on during wars. In fact it's quite normal for those in conflict to act like animals and complete barbarians. 

It's absolutely despicable and hopefully karma comes back on those that carry out these gangster actions. However, go on youtube and you can see similar stuff being carried out by Ukrainians on Russians. I'm not condoning this either but tit for tat killings are happening. I'm actually shocked that youtube are allowing these videos to be uploaded, but there is one with Russians being executed. One still moving, minus his head only to get shot again for good measure. Both sides are committing these acts whether people feel one side is justified or not. 

If I'm honest as time goes by I'm seeing more and more reasoning for ensuring UK citizens are kept out of this conflict it's becoming that much of a mess. Of course I want us to support Ukraine it's a disturbing place and will be for quite some time and we shouldn't think otherwise. 

On another note my lads best mate has just come back from manoeuvres in Poland spending a week in a trench. Even he said it was scary just listening to things going off across the border. Saying that the sky is continually black in the distance due to the smoke. I think it put the wind up him tbh, especially having a new born to think about. 

 

[AVFC_Hitz]

7 hours ago, Awol said:

Telegram is full of normal Russian soldiers and special forces horrifically torturing Ukrainians, both POW and civilians. That includes ISIS style beheadings with heads thrown in cooking pots - to the videographers amusement. 

There needs to be some really serious reality checks in the west about the nature of what is happening in Ukraine. This isn’t just ‘something that happens in war’, it has the stench of genuine evil. 

The risks of confronting Russia are real and we have to be honest about that, but the pigs doing this need to **** die. They are the Nazis our grandfathers fought.

I had to delete one group from my Telegram. It was too horrific to even describe. What started off as something quite informative turned into me watching recordings of War crimes. 

[magnkarl]

6 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

Awol, sorry to piss on your bonfire but what you are describing above goes on during wars. In fact it's quite normal for those in conflict to act like animals and complete barbarians. 

It's absolutely despicable and hopefully karma comes back on those that carry out these gangster actions. However, go on youtube and you can see similar stuff being carried out by Ukrainians on Russians. I'm not condoning this either but tit for tat killings are happening. I'm actually shocked that youtube are allowing these videos to be uploaded, but there is one with Russians being executed. One still moving, minus his head only to get shot again for good measure. Both sides are committing these acts whether people feel one side is justified or not. 

If I'm honest as time goes by I'm seeing more and more reasoning for ensuring UK citizens are kept out of this conflict it's becoming that much of a mess. Of course I want us to support Ukraine it's a disturbing place and will be for quite some time and we shouldn't think otherwise. 

On another note my lads best mate has just come back from manoeuvres in Poland spending a week in a trench. Even he said it was scary just listening to things going off across the border. Saying that the sky is continually black in the distance due to the smoke. I think it put the wind up him tbh, especially having a new born to think about. 

 

The thing is mate, one side is soldiers only. Most Ukrainians killed are civvies for the amusement of the Russian orcs. I don’t condone killing soldiers after capture, but just like Jews would hunt down nazis after the war I can understand why Ukrainians want revenge for what these specific Russian soldiers have done to their country, women, children and so on.

What would you do to a soldier you’d capture after he had killed your whole village, molested children, tortured people? It’s a situation most people will hopefully never experience, but I presume many would want revenge. Russia has no right to be in Ukraine, their soldiers are there illegally. They are committing war crimes on an industrial scale and for Ukrainians the world is largely not giving a shit except for NATO.

When American soldiers took over Dachau, they passed by trains full of dead Jews and Roma from other camps. Several of the dachau guards were shot after capture without a trial. Sometimes the evil people do makes even the best want to do something more about that.

Edited May 7, 2022 by magnkarl

[Awol]

7 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

Awol, sorry to piss on your bonfire but what you are describing above goes on during wars. In fact it's quite normal for those in conflict to act like animals and complete barbarians. 

It's absolutely despicable and hopefully karma comes back on those that carry out these gangster actions. However, go on youtube and you can see similar stuff being carried out by Ukrainians on Russians. I'm not condoning this either but tit for tat killings are happening. I'm actually shocked that youtube are allowing these videos to be uploaded, but there is one with Russians being executed. One still moving, minus his head only to get shot again for good measure. Both sides are committing these acts whether people feel one side is justified or not. 

If I'm honest as time goes by I'm seeing more and more reasoning for ensuring UK citizens are kept out of this conflict it's becoming that much of a mess. Of course I want us to support Ukraine it's a disturbing place and will be for quite some time and we shouldn't think otherwise. 

On another note my lads best mate has just come back from manoeuvres in Poland spending a week in a trench. Even he said it was scary just listening to things going off across the border. Saying that the sky is continually black in the distance due to the smoke. I think it put the wind up him tbh, especially having a new born to think about. 

 

I’ve seen a few wars from the inside and the difference here is that committing mass atrocities is the policy of a state actor in the conflict. Bosnia was awful but the scale was smaller, Srebrenica has been exceeded in Mariupol alone many times over.

As @magnkarl said it’s no surprise that Ukrainians are reacting to Russian atrocities against their people, who wouldn’t? Russia is trying to erase another state and it’s people, Ukraine is the victim of an ongoing attempt at genocide. It’s a terrifying ambition.

The best thing the western countries can do for your son’s mate (and all his mates) is to give Ukraine everything it needs to beat the fascists now, so no one else has to.

[chrisp65]

That Stop The War petition is going to need an awful lot of signatures at this rate. They nearly finished it?

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

That Stop The War petition is going to need an awful lot of signatures at this rate. They nearly finished it?

Still talking about the wording

[sidcow]

10 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

On another note my lads best mate has just come back from manoeuvres in Poland spending a week in a trench. Even he said it was scary just listening to things going off across the border. Saying that the sky is continually black in the distance due to the smoke. I think it put the wind up him tbh, especially having a new born to think about. 

A mate of mine joined the Army. As soon as he was actually shot at he did everything he could get out ASAP. 

Edited May 7, 2022 by sidcow

[Mandy Lifeboats]

20 minutes ago, sidcow said:

As soon as he was actually shot OUT he did everything he could get out ASAP. 

They used him as a human cannonball? 

 

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

They used him as a human cannonball? 

 

Garnn, never misspell on VT.  Never

[avfc1982am]

 

4 hours ago, magnkarl said:

The thing is mate, one side is soldiers only. Most Ukrainians killed are civvies for the amusement of the Russian orcs. I don’t condone killing soldiers after capture, but just like Jews would hunt down nazis after the war I can understand why Ukrainians want revenge for what these specific Russian soldiers have done to their country, women, children and so on.

What would you do to a soldier you’d capture after he had killed your whole village, molested children, tortured people? It’s a situation most people will hopefully never experience, but I presume many would want revenge. Russia has no right to be in Ukraine, their soldiers are there illegally. They are committing war crimes on an industrial scale and for Ukrainians the world is largely not giving a shit except for NATO.

When American soldiers took over Dachau, they passed by trains full of dead Jews and Roma from other camps. Several of the dachau guards were shot after capture without a trial. Sometimes the evil people do makes even the best want to do something more about that.

I most definitely understand why Ukrainians want revenge, This is just natural and your quite right the atrocities are against civilians on the one side and soldiers on the other but I'm not claiming this isn't the case. only that vile shit is being carried out by both sides regardless of justification.

We don't have to do the "What would I do" question either because It doesn't bare thinking about. My levels of retribution would be extreme also in a similar situation.. 

 

2 hours ago, Awol said:

I’ve seen a few wars from the inside and the difference here is that committing mass atrocities is the policy of a state actor in the conflict. Bosnia was awful but the scale was smaller, Srebrenica has been exceeded in Mariupol alone many times over.

As @magnkarl said it’s no surprise that Ukrainians are reacting to Russian atrocities against their people, who wouldn’t? Russia is trying to erase another state and it’s people, Ukraine is the victim of an ongoing attempt at genocide. It’s a terrifying ambition.

The best thing the western countries can do for your son’s mate (and all his mates) is to give Ukraine everything it needs to beat the fascists now, so no one else has to.

 I agree.

 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

27 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Garnn, never misspell on VT.  Never

Luckily I am perfect and never make speeling mishsteaks.  

[limpid]

15 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Does that matter? That airspace would appear to be well within NATO'S control.  At 50,000 ft high a drone should be able to spot a ship, especially one on fire. 

I have seen large ships from civilian airliners at much lower heights. It's amazing to see the triangular wake. It is massive in comparison to the ship itself.  

I'm bored so I just worked out that it can see 274 miles from that height

Who said Pythagoras's Theorem wasn't useful.

[Follyfoot]

11 minutes ago, limpid said:

I'm bored so I just worked out that it can see 274 miles from that height

Who said Pythagoras's Theorem wasn't useful.

Are you bored enough to rewire my outbuilding, pro bono like but will throw in a few cups of coffee but you would have to make your own toilet arrangements 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Follyfoot

[Enda]

35 minutes ago, limpid said:

I'm bored so I just worked out that it can see 274 miles from that height

Who said Pythagoras's Theorem wasn't useful.

Yeah fine, but can you figure out how far Alex Tonev’s free kicks can travel? Bet you can’t.

[limpid]

32 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Are you bored enough to rewire my outbuilding, pro bono like but will throw in a few cups of coffee but you would have to make your own toilet arrangements 

I would, but I only go to places with indoor plumbing.

[avfc1982am]

 

[avfc1982am]