OutByEaster? Posted March 27, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 27, 2022 There seems to be a bit of a divergence happening - Zelesnkyy is increasingly talking about compromise and about working with the Russians toward a neutral peaceful Ukraine - I'm not sure that some of his supporters on our side of the fence (and particularly in the US) are quite ready for that yet - I wonder if Biden's crafted "mistake" yesterday was designed to hamper progress on what Washington might consider a premature peace deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: There seems to be a bit of a divergence happening - Zelesnkyy is increasingly talking about compromise and about working with the Russians toward a neutral peaceful Ukraine - I'm not sure that some of his supporters on our side of the fence (and particularly in the US) are quite ready for that yet - I wonder if Biden's crafted "mistake" yesterday was designed to hamper progress on what Washington might consider a premature peace deal. There’s also plenty in Ukraine who will not accept losing the south eastern part of their country. Zelesnskyy has also said that giving up territory is not something he can just decide to do himself. He has said it will require a free and fair election and include the votes of all the refugees who have fled from their homes there or been removed from the area by Russia. It doesn’t seem like something that will ever happen in reality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post magnkarl Posted March 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: There seems to be a bit of a divergence happening - Zelesnkyy is increasingly talking about compromise and about working with the Russians toward a neutral peaceful Ukraine - I'm not sure that some of his supporters on our side of the fence (and particularly in the US) are quite ready for that yet - I wonder if Biden's crafted "mistake" yesterday was designed to hamper progress on what Washington might consider a premature peace deal. It's high level statecraft by Zelenskyy, he's said himself that he won't concede anything without a referendum so what he's doing now is essentially locking Putin in a corner where he's either losing young Russians to war with an opponent who has said he wants to discuss terms, or a situation where Putin will have to withdraw his troops to allow these votes. The difference seems to be that Zelenskyy has good advisors and Putin has no one he'll listen to. If, and that's a big if, Ukraine concedes Donbas, it'll have come at a cost to Putin that will likely result in his government eventually being overthrown. That no one in his cabinet has the balls to tell him this is just classic autocracy. Kadyrov has lost many troops, Putin has lost many special forces, pilots and paratroopers. He's lost gear for billions, gear he won't be able to replace as his economy tanks. While Russia now "withdraws" troops to reinforce Donbas, Ukraine can essentially move their BTG's to new defensive positions around Donbas in half the time. They can free up men from Kyiv to reinforce the push towards Kherson and likely push Russia back to Crimea. In military terms, this "withdrawal" from Russia makes absolutely no sense, they've lost anywhere from 30-50k men (pow's, deserters, injured, killed), around 3000 pieces of equipment, and trashed their own economy. For what? They've pushed the line of contact in the Donbas maybe 1\3 further into the oblast than the original line of contact, murdered lots of civilians in Mariupol and become distasteful even to China. Ukraine can rotate troops in and out, allow them to rest, get fed, stay warm and healthy. Russia has no such logistical ability. It's gone tits up at a speed never before seen from a superpower in a war against a much smaller country. Edited March 28, 2022 by magnkarl 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 If Zelensky is on Russian TV delivering a very clear message then it's because they let him. Stage managed peace deal? I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 28, 2022 Just now, Jareth said: If Zelensky is on Russian TV delivering a very clear message then it's because they let him. Stage managed peace deal? I hope so. It wasn't shown in Russia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 hours ago, magnkarl said: It's high level statecraft by Zelenskyy, he's said himself that he won't concede anything without a referendum so what he's doing now is essentially locking Putin in a corner where he's either losing young Russians to war with an opponent who has said he wants to discuss terms, or a situation where Putin will have to withdraw his troops to allow these votes. The difference seems to be that Zelenskyy has good advisors and Putin has no one he'll listen to. If, and that's a big if, Ukraine concedes Donbas, it'll have come at a cost to Putin that will likely result in his government eventually being overthrown. That no one in his cabinet has the balls to tell him this is just classic autocracy. Kadyrov has lost many troops, Putin has lost many special forces, pilots and paratroopers. He's lost gear for billions, gear he won't be able to replace as his economy tanks. While Russia now "withdraws" troops to reinforce Donbas, Ukraine can essentially move their BTG's to new defensive positions around Donbas in half the time. They can free up men from Kyiv to reinforce the push towards Kherson and likely push Russia back to Crimea. In military terms, this "withdrawal" from Russia makes absolutely no sense, they've lost anywhere from 30-50k men (pow's, deserters, injured, killed), around 3000 pieces of equipment, and trashed their own economy. For what? They've pushed the line of contact in the Donbas maybe 1\3 further into the oblast than the original line of contact, murdered lots of civilians in Mariupol and become distasteful even to China. Ukraine can rotate troops in and out, allow them to rest, get fed, stay warm and healthy. Russia has no such logistical ability. It's gone tits up at a speed never before seen from a superpower in a war against a much smaller country. Great post as always, Mag. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Interesting interview with Zelensky through the link in the tweet. High praise for the UK, not so much for France and Germany, and surprisingly equivocal about the US, but it’s a useful window into his take on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Awol said: Interesting interview with Zelensky through the link in the tweet. High praise for the UK, not so much for France and Germany, and surprisingly equivocal about the US, but it’s a useful window into his take on things. But, but there were ten whole seconds in a two minute meeting where he wasn't shaking hands with anybody!!!!1111 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Why dont the west give Ukrain some missles so that they can do a bit of damage to Russian cities as well ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: Why dont the west give Ukrain some missles so that they can do a bit of damage to Russian cities as well ? For so many reasons it's hard to know where to start. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 It would be nice to see/hear on the news that a Russian city (any city ) suffered damage because of missles fired from Ukrain,oh well,maybe next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: It would be nice to see/hear on the news that a Russian city (any city ) suffered damage because of missles fired from Ukrain,oh well,maybe next time. Why on eath would that be nice? But for the record, Ukraine has attacked military airfields located inside Russia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: It would be nice to see/hear on the news that a Russian city (any city ) suffered damage because of missles fired from Ukrain,oh well,maybe next time. Nice? Well yeah, and then perhaps Russia could bomb Perth, to try and spread it all about. Would that also be filed under ‘nice’? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 It would be nice to see Russian cities get a pummeling for a change,instead of "only" Ukrain cities.Also Putins reaction would be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 minute ago, PussEKatt said: It would be nice to see Russian cities get a pummeling for a change,instead of "only" Ukrain cities.Also Putins reaction would be interesting. That’s some pretty base level analysis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 28, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: It would be nice to see Russian cities get a pummeling for a change,instead of "only" Ukrain cities.Also Putins reaction would be interesting. It would be nice to not see Ukrainian cities being pummeled by missiles at all, jeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, LondonLax said: That’s some pretty base level analysis. I loved the use of the word ‘interesting’ the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: It would be nice to see Russian cities get a pummeling for a change,instead of "only" Ukrain cities.Also Putins reaction would be interesting. That's some 8 year old logic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Nice? Well yeah, and then perhaps Russia could bomb Perth, to try and spread it all about. Would that also be filed under ‘nice’? Which Perth are we talking about here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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