Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[magnkarl]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Not true. The Black Sea fleet had 7 landing ships when I looked it up, at least 5 of which were seaworthy before the conflict

Alligator class

• Orsk
• Saratoc
• Nikolay Filchenlov

Ropucha II

• Azov

Ropucha I

• Novocherkassk
• Caesar Kunikov
• Yamal

One of Orsk or Saratov is sunk, the other is damaged. Yamak and Nikolay Filchenlov are unknowns

But also currently on active duty in Black Sea are

Ropucha's Minsk, Kallingrad and Korolev from the Baltic Fleet as well as Georgy Pobedonoset and Olenegorsky Gornyak from the Northern Fleet. Add to that the Ivan-Gran class ship Pyotr Morgunov also from the Northern Fleet

So thats at least 9, possibly 11 Landing ships still in the Black Sea on active duty

How many of these are actually sea worthy and not in the dry dock though? Satellite imagry could only find one alligator class ship as far as I've read.

The alligator class that was sunk seems to be the only 'big' landing ship that has been spotted for a long time. The others aren't really capable of landing enough men and equipment to take a big city like Odesa. A rapoucha 1 can carry about 10 tanks and 300 troops, no matter how one tries to calculate back and forth, 30 tanks and 1200 troops ain't going to even get on a beach at this rate.

Edited March 27, 2022 by magnkarl

[OutByEaster?]

Biden's comments are worrying. They're great in that it reaffirms the global commitment to supporting Ukraine, but by removing the "out" for Putin, they're making negotiation for peace harder.

It seems to me that if our aim is to back Ukraine, then it's not the best thing to say as it will make negotiations much more difficult. It almost seems to signal a movement towards punishing Putin being the aim, even if it means sacrificing Ukraine to get there.

The comments just seem a bit unnecessary.

 

[chrisp65]

I think we’re going through quite a period of having quite poor politicians. Both in their day to day grasp of how they should perform, and in their long term strategies.

It’s easy with hindsight to spot where we have gone wrong. But bloody hell, putting so much of our future in the hands of Saudi Arabia, China, and Russia. Chinese nuclear technology, Chinese 5G, Russian energy, Saudi energy, their money, their credit. Just madness really, just a clear strategy of short termism for decades.

Lots and lots of concern over whether the Belgians should be able to dictate the quality of our cheese though.

[sidcow]

3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I think we’re going through quite a period of having quite poor politicians. Both in their day to day grasp of how they should perform, and in their long term strategies.

It’s easy with hindsight to spot where we have gone wrong. But bloody hell, putting so much of our future in the hands of Saudi Arabia, China, and Russia. Chinese nuclear technology, Chinese 5G, Russian energy, Saudi energy, their money, their credit. Just madness really, just a clear strategy of short termism for decades.

Lots and lots of concern over whether the Belgians should be able to dictate the quality of our cheese though.

We've subbed loads of manufacturing and Tech over to India as well and they're faltering on Russia too.  They're buying coal from Russia now, probably to make our goods and run our call centres. 

[blandy]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

It’s easy with hindsight to spot where we have gone wrong. But bloody hell, putting so much of our future in the hands of Saudi Arabia, China, and Russia. Chinese nuclear technology, Chinese 5G, Russian energy, Saudi energy, their money, their credit. Just madness really,

It doesn’t need hindsight! But you’re dead right about poor quality politicians, short termism and all the rest of it.  Sticking to the topic of Russia I’m pretty sure you could go back however far and find VT posters on here, journalists, media people, politicians too, to be fair, clearly identifying Russia/Putin as a massive wrong-un, not to be trusted, brutal…etc and cautioning against the Tories taking his money, anti-US sentiment blinding parts of Labour to his oppression and murderous nature, the interference in Brexit, Trump etc.

[fruitvilla]

13 minutes ago, sidcow said:

We've subbed loads of manufacturing and Tech over to India as well and they're faltering on Russia too.  They're buying coal from Russia now, probably to make our goods and run our call centres. 

And yet for Europe it is/was the interlocked economy that held the peace. There is no point bombing a country where you want to sell your cheddar. Mutually assured destruction? Well, we will see if that works in the coming months.

[StefanAVFC]

We found out last week that the company I work for is on anonymous’s hit list due to not cancelling their business in Russia.

Not really sure what it means for me and my work tbh 

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

We found out last week that the company I work for is on anonymous’s hit list due to not cancelling their business in Russia.

Not really sure what it means for me and my work tbh 

Apparently they are gonna release all the incognito browsing history of their employees

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

Apparently they are gonna release all the incognito browsing history of their employees

I have my personal laptop with me for those needs 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

I have my personal laptop with me for those needs 

That’s what they’re going after buddy. 

Employee list -> release their personal browsing history.

Ouch. Now your mrs is gonna know about all the gifts and secret days out you’ve got planned.

[bobzy]

15 minutes ago, Genie said:

That’s what they’re going after buddy. 

Employee list -> release their personal browsing history.

Ouch. Now your mrs is gonna know about all the gifts and secret days out you’ve got planned.

Not to mention the dildos with Putin's face on them.

 

(Still OT, right?)

[bannedfromHandV]

11 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Not to mention the dildos with Putin's face on them.

 

(Still OT, right?)

Vlad the Impaler?

Or is it the Put In?

I’ll get my coat……….

[LondonLax]

 

 

[Genie]

The UK’s perspective what’s the best realistic short/medium term outcome?

Peace deal which might involve redrawing some borders, no NATO, no nukes but also sanctions remain in place in Russia until Putin is gone? 

[sidcow]

Just watching a programme about The Falklands. One of the Para's was saying that when the fighting started they just had to choose and fight their own battles as it unfolded. 

Cut to a senior commander who said the people who win wars are the troops. The Generals can make plans but it's the people on the ground who have to implement this and decide how to achieve their objectives. 

Made me think about the Russian way which is only Generals make decisions.  Even Sergeants and Corporals are not allowed to use any initiative, let alone individual soldiers.  Madness, explains a lot I think. 

[KentVillan]

 

Read the whole thread, but Germany increasingly looks like a bad (or, charitably, indifferent) actor in this whole conflict. They're not willing to take any dent in GDP to do the right thing, and their vulnerability to Russian influence is based on unforced errors that they were warned about at the time.

[OutByEaster?]

The interview that Zelenskyy did today with Russian TV was really clever i think - he spoke in Russian throughout and said that the Ukraine were willing to compromise on just about everything the Russians are after - a lot of Russian people will have seen that, and if in a week's time, they're still hearing about their troops dying and they're still struggling to make ends meet because of the sanctions, then they're going to be asking their own leaders "What's going on here? The Ukrainian guy was ready to talk, why are we still doing this?".

He's put a big pressure on Russia to be seen to be doing something to stop the war, simply by suggesting that they don't have much to gain through it.

He's made himself the reasonable guy from Ukraine in the eyes of a lot of Russian people. I think that right now he's much more dangerous to Putin that way.

 

 

[KentVillan]

6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The interview that Zelenskyy did today with Russian TV was really clever i think - he spoke in Russian throughout and said that the Ukraine were willing to compromise on just about everything the Russians are after - a lot of Russian people will have seen that, and if in a week's time, they're still hearing about their troops dying and they're still struggling to make ends meet because of the sanctions, then they're going to be asking their own leaders "What's going on here? The Ukrainian guy was ready to talk, why are we still doing this?".

He's put a big pressure on Russia to be seen to be doing something to stop the war, simply by suggesting that they don't have much to gain through it.

He's made himself the reasonable guy from Ukraine in the eyes of a lot of Russian people. I think that right now he's much more dangerous to Putin that way.

Russian is Zelenskyy's first language btw

[OutByEaster?]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

Russian is Zelenskyy's first language btw

I didn't know that - but even so, he'll be speaking Ukrainian much of the time - he's made a conscious effort to impress upon Russian's his Russian-ness, from what I've read, it sounds like he's done a very good job of dropping a "why are we fighting this guy?" bomb on Moscow.

 

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

I didn't know that - but even so, he'll be speaking Ukrainian much of the time - he's made a conscious effort to impress upon Russian's his Russian-ness, from what I've read, it sounds like he's done a very good job of dropping a "why are we fighting this guy?" bomb on Moscow.

 

I highlighted it because so many people wrongly believe that "Russian speaking" = pro-Putin / pro-Russia. It's more like the situation in Ireland/Wales, where plenty of nationalist/separatists were brought up speaking English as their first language.

But it also means he can fluently explain things to a Russian audience, as you say.