Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, Genie said:

Is there any chance Ukraine will fire off some rockets into Russia? 

This already happened earlier today, they hit an airfield in Rostov oblast over the border.

[ender4]

1 hour ago, romavillan said:

The fact it's not done and dusted already and all the shit he has to deal with now at home means it's a massive ****from Putin. He's achieving the exact opposite of what he wanted, even if he throws all his might at it and succeeds in taking Kyiv, he won't have it for long because he won't have Russia for long.

Times are changing, good article on how, and how fast Europe has changed it's relationship with Russia: https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/In-just-72-hours-Europe-overhauled-its-entire-16966708.php?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email 

That was a really interesting article, thanks for sharing.

[HanoiVillan]

34 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Not gonna happen.

The UAE have spent the last two decades trying to attract westerners.

[...]

Saudi Arabia are entirely tied up financially with the west.

I mean you say that but the UAE chose not to vote to condemn Russia at the UN, the Saudis deliberately aren't turning the taps on as Russian oil goes out of the global supply, and both countries spent all winter conspiring with Russia to keep prices high.

A big problem for the US is that they extend endless support for these repressive, backward autocracies, and what they get in return is wahhabism and high gas prices. The Gulf states constantly take America for a ride, I would hardly put it past them doing so again.

[sidcow]

Sounds like China might be getting jumpy. Hopefully they can reign the dog in. 

[TheAuthority]

Thoughts on this take?

 

[bannedfromHandV]

44 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I mean you say that but the UAE chose not to vote to condemn Russia at the UN, the Saudis deliberately aren't turning the taps on as Russian oil goes out of the global supply, and both countries spent all winter conspiring with Russia to keep prices high.

A big problem for the US is that they extend endless support for these repressive, backward autocracies, and what they get in return is wahhabism and high gas prices. The Gulf states constantly take America for a ride, I would hardly put it past them doing so again.

The gulf states know they’re on borrowed time with oil, hence why they’ve been investing so heavily in other forms of infrastructure and tourism, no way they throw all that investment and planning down the drain to cosy up with Putin.

[The Fun Factory]

That's hokum. Europe is defined by the Urals to the north and the Bosporus to the south. 

Interestingly the next highest point from the clee hills in Shropshire from that longitude is the urals.

[Awol]

11 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

That's hokum. Europe is defined by the Urals to the north and the Bosporus to the south. 

Interestingly the next highest point from the clee hills in Shropshire from that longitude is the urals.

That is interesting. Incredible, in fact. 

[Awol]

27 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

Thoughts on this take?

 

One of the replies puts it well: 

But from the creator of the 1619 project, it could’ve been much worse. 

[HanoiVillan]

14 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Interestingly the next highest point from the clee hills in Shropshire from that longitude is the urals.

 

2 minutes ago, Awol said:

That is interesting. Incredible, in fact. 

I've heard the same claim made about Clent as well. It's surely nonsense, though I don't know how to check for sure.

[Chindie]

28 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

Thoughts on this take?

 

It's not wrong, Europe isn't easily definable and what it is changes depending on the criteria you choose to focus on.

It also is pretty evident that reporting on this has had a bit of a... problematic... tone. There's various examples of reporters making comments about how this is a more impactful conflict because Ukrainians 'look like us' etc etc, which is an eye opening take.

Whether that is a clumsy take or more enlightening to a bigger issue, shrug. I suspect there is a meritful point there, but it's merit against the bigger point (a nuclear armed state just invaded a nation friendly to us, an aggression that has created a global crisis that if it goes wrong is potentially the worst thing to happen in humanity's history) is miniscule.

[TheAuthority]

3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

I've heard the same claim made about Clent as well. It's surely nonsense, though I don't know how to check for sure.

Get your hiking boots on!

[TheAuthority]

1 minute ago, Chindie said:

It's not wrong, Europe isn't easily definable and what it is changes depending on the criteria you choose to focus on.

It also is pretty evident that reporting on this has had a bit of a... problematic... tone. There's various examples of reporters making comments about how this is a more impactful conflict because Ukrainians 'look like us' etc etc, which is an eye opening take.

Whether that is a clumsy take or more enlightening to a bigger issue, shrug. I suspect there is a meritful point there, but it's merit against the bigger point (a nuclear armed state just invaded a nation friendly to us, an aggression that has created a global crisis that if it goes wrong is potentially the worst thing to happen in humanity's history) is miniscule.

Playing devil's advocate, African Americans might argue that white European aggression created slavery which is arguably one of the worst things in human history. 

 

[maqroll]

It will be interesting to see what other tyrants show up to Putin's so called anti fascism conference. 

There has to be a lot of hand wringing in India about what Modi will do here. 

The winner in this current crisis is Taiwan. China will be taking diligent notes on what Putin has brought upon himself by invading his neighbor. 

China are proposing to mediate peace talks which is fascinating. As will the West's response. Ukraine might be eager to reaffirm friendly relations with China and agree to it. 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by maqroll

[HanoiVillan]

35 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

Thoughts on this take?

 

The part ending in the word 'Asia' is basically correct, though the relevant 'geopolitics' is that of ancient Greece, not anything modern. It's not massively clear why she wrote it.

The part after that is poorly worded but she clarifies it in the next tweet:

There are different ways of looking at this. One I think is that it is philosophically right; that if you believe all lives are worth the same then a war in Yemen or the DRC is no less tragic, and that there is a noticeable gap between the all-out focus on this crisis compared to others around the globe. As I said the other day, we're 3 years into bombardments and blockades of Yemen and I haven't seen anyone demanding the Saudi's are kicked off SWIFT or have their central bank assets frozen. But that is also the other side of the argument, that her position is just impossibly naive, that of course the developments in Europe matter more to Europeans or North Americans than developments in the Middle East or Africa, that that's just the way it is. But I don't think it should require too much imaginative empathy to think that the way a white European experiences this difference in media coverage is fairly obviously going to be very different to the way a politically-engaged African American would experience it.

[Chindie]

2 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

Playing devil's advocate, African Americans might argue that white European aggression created slavery which is arguably one of the worst things in human history. 

 

They might, and they'd be right. But if this goes wrong it could end up with most of the cities in the Western world disappearing in an instant with death tolls measured in billions.

[maqroll]

46 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

Thoughts on this take?

 

Her first take is a poor one. 

Her second take is accurate. 

[TheAuthority]

2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

The part ending in the word 'Asia' is basically correct, though the relevant 'geopolitics' is that of ancient Greece, not anything modern. It's not massively clear why she wrote it.

The part after that is poorly worded but she clarifies it in the next tweet:

There are different ways of looking at this. One I think is that it is philosophically right; that if you believe all lives are worth the same then a war in Yemen or the DRC is no less tragic, and that there is a noticeable gap between the all-out focus on this crisis compared to others around the globe. As I said the other day, we're 3 years into bombardments and blockades of Yemen and I haven't seen anyone demanding the Saudi's are kicked off SWIFT or have their central bank assets frozen. But that is also the other side of the argument, that her position is just impossibly naive, that of course the developments in Europe matter more to Europeans or North Americans than developments in the Middle East or Africa, that that's just the way it is. But I don't think it should require too much imaginative empathy to think that the way a white European experiences this difference in media coverage is fairly obviously going to be very different to the way a politically-engaged African American would experience it.

Great post. I'm very well aware that as a white bloke, my perception of these issues is, quite literally, colored by my experience. 

[Awol]

14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

I've heard the same claim made about Clent as well. It's surely nonsense, though I don't know how to check for sure.

Binoculars? 

[TheAuthority]

3 minutes ago, Chindie said:

They might, and they'd be right. But if this goes wrong it could end up with most of the cities in the Western world disappearing in an instant with death tolls measured in billions.

I dated a Bosnian for a while. I'll never forget conversations with her and her mother (refugee status in London) which basically went along the lines of: if Muslims were raping, torturing and killing Christians in Europe there would be no hesitation to stop it. But, it was Christian (Serbs) committing atrocities against the Bosnian Muslims. So the West dragged its feet before getting involved and it allowed many atrocities to happen. 

It was only through a quirk of history and the Ottoman Empire that we had a large population of white Muslims in Europe.