DewiMckay Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 48 minutes ago, fleksnes said: Like any other Russian troll,all you have to talk about is the evil West,and USA,so i think i will let you blabber on without me I'm not here to offend, however I will defend my posistion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted July 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31, 2023 3 hours ago, DewiMckay said: Ukraine was bombing civillians in the Dombass /Crimea region. Moreover Ukraine was putting rocket systems in urban areas. Drone attacks in Moscow. This gets the biggest lol from me. How is the paycheck from the Russians these days by the way? Is it hard to cash rubles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 I’m just waiting on ‘multi-polar world’ and ‘Biden money laundering’ for my bingo card. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) @DewiMckay You asked for a source showing that Russia initially admitted to shooting down MH17. Here is the link to Wikipedia. That then links to the other sources. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 Quote On the evening of the crash, the LifeNews portal reported that at around 16:00 local time the separatists shot down "Ukrainian Air Force An-26 transport plane" with a missile, calling it "a new victory for the Donetsk military Russia murdered those people and still hasn't admitted responsibility. Edited July 31, 2023 by Mandy Lifeboats Added sumfink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 hours ago, DewiMckay said: Russia was weak it was on the verge of collpasing. Don't blame them. However counties that arrived in the first tranche of NATO expansion, were not on Russia Borders. True, Starlin was a monster. However I wouldn't compare Putin to Starlin. Agreed. But we shouldn't be poking the bear. 1. Most of the Warsaw Pact joined NATO in order to protect themselves from Russia. 2. Stalin murdered millions. Putin has murdered less. That makes both genocidal maniacs. 3. If the bear does not want to be poked it should get back into its cave. Personally I think NATO should be poking the bear much harder. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 hours ago, DewiMckay said: A country has clear red lines for instance America has the Monro Doctrum this was used in the Cuban Missle Crisis - So when a Super Power feels threatend, it will react. Consider if China moved miltary bases to Canda and Mexico, what would America do? The West has been openly advocating for Ukraine to join NATO Bucharest Summit 2008 (3rd April) . Russia informed NATO this has crossed thier red line - NATO expansion Eastwards was a direct threat to thier security, this was made clear to both NATO /Ukraine. v Unfortunately, Ukraine is split country, Russian speakers in the East and Ukraine speakers in West, clearly shown when electrions have taken place. Russia felt it's Russian speakers were being discriminated by the Ukraine Goverment (see Stephan Bandera - Views) In my view Russia is a Super Power, it is rich with resources which it can sell to Europe (Oil, Gas & Nuclear materials). It has the abliity to adapt. Which countries has been more effected by sancations imposed on Russia? So when did America invade Cuba and start bombing it's civilians? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 hours ago, DewiMckay said: The Geneva Conventions. I fear that people are not fully aware of the history and I'm trying to offer sources. NATO offered Belarus a deal in 2004 - Russia reacted by cutting thier supply of gas in short Ecomomic Sanctions. Do you have a source? 1. Please provide a link to the Geneva Convention that states weapons cannot be sited in residential areas. 2. Sorry. I have no time for your alternative history nonsense. Russia invaded Ukraine twice. Russia is the aggressor. Russia twice violated an agreement to respect Ukraine's borders. Every death (on both sides) is the responsibility of Putin. 3. I wonder why Belarus wanted to join NATO? Was it because Russia was such a good neighbour? 4. Provided in an earlier post. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31, 2023 What an extraordinary outburst. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post magnkarl Posted July 31, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, DewiMckay said: Since Ukraine became an independent state was who or what could potentially guarantee its security. After the fall of USSR the Ukrainian government thought that it could defend itself. It had inherited some Soviet nuclear weapons, alas they failed to bypass the security locks integrated into the nuclear warheads. Furthermore, there was pressure from the U.S. to get rid of those devices as the Ukraine at that time was prolific in selling its Soviet era weapons to various shady actors around the world. Ukraine, together with Belarus and Kazakhstan, was pressed to enter the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. In exchange it got the Budapest Memorandum, a weak promise of non-interference. Today - During the preparations of the NATO Vilnius summit (11–12 July 2023,), it had become clear that NAYO members would not agree to Ukraine's membership, U.S. President Biden suggested an alternative to NATO membership, a la the security US provides for Israel “I don’t think it’s ready for membership in NATO,” Biden said of Ukraine. “I don’t think there is unanimity in NATO about whether or not to bring Ukraine into the NATO family now, at this moment, in the middle of a war.” “And one of the things I indicated is, the United States would be ready to provide, while the process was going on, and that’s gonna take a while, to provide security a la the security we provide for Israel: providing the weaponry they need, the capacity to defend themselves,” Biden said, adding, “If there is an agreement, if there is a ceasefire, if there is a peace agreement.” Further Listening from 2016 Let's see, new user created solely to defend Russia. It smells. Coincidentally, when I type in what you've written in Russian into a translator and ask for English it provides me with the same bad English that you've written here. It also took me two seconds to find your exact post on several other forums, including other message boards in the West and other black-listed FB groups. @limpid I think you've got the right to feel honoured, you're being targeted by a Russian troll farm. If I played Russian-troll bingo, I'd be winning solely based on this post. NATO is at fault for all Putin so strong Ukraine is using cluster munitions, while Russia has used them for ever Ukraine bombed civilians in Donbas, so my hero Putin had to save them Talks about security guarantees but completely forgets the Budapest Memorandum and its twice-over violation, then cries foul when people spell it out to you. Are you George Galloway? How many posts do you have to post on Western forums a day to reach your quota? How's the weather in St. Petersburg? Edited July 31, 2023 by magnkarl 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 hours ago, DewiMckay said: Respectfully, I disagree. Consider sanactions, these have been used to change a countries direction. Start a colour revolution? Direct Miltary internention isn't the only option. Ukraine was bombing civillians in the Dombass /Crimea region. Moreover Ukraine was putting rocket systems in urban areas. Drone attacks in Moscow. Perhaps they could have a flour party with Sanna Marin Show me evidence of a pre invasion drone attack on Moscow. It’s far more basic than you are trying to make it. Russia invaded another country. We all know countries lean on other countries, from Angola, to Mali, or Argentina. But an actual invasion with the kidnapping of children and bombing of schools and hospitals, c’mon man. Do you seriously think it would stop here? Do you think the current line would be Putin’s final piece of murderous expansionism? We let him have this, and he wouldn’t start looking at Odessa, and then Moldova, and then Kiev, and some more of Georgia? We are less safe if he wins. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) On 28/07/2023 at 21:43, Demitri_C said: Ukraine have moved their xmas day from jan to dec 25th like us. Bet that goes down well with the russians. I do wonder if the Ukrainians support this or not Generally speaking - older / former soviet people will be annoyed, but if they are pro Ukrainian then its a minor inconvenience. Younger / European people (under 40) celebrated it on the 25th December anyway. We celebrate our christmas as usual on 25/12, my wife's parents celebrate it 2 weeks later. Just how it is. Edited July 31, 2023 by pas5898 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 55 minutes ago, sidcow said: So when did America invade Cuba and start bombing it's civilians? Just as a little side note here, Guantanamo Bay on Cuba is land the U.S. refused to leave when the revolution happened. When the Bay of Pigs invasion happened there was bombing by B26 aircraft ‘acquired’ by the CIA for the counter revolutionaries. As you were… 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 31, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) For the benefit of @DewiMckay let's celebrate Russia's hugely successful Special Military Operation "We will stop NATO expansion" - Fail. NATO expanded. "We will demilitarise Ukraine" - Fail. Ukraine's military is bigger and better equipped. "We will protect Russian speakers in Ukraine" - Fail. They can't even defend Russian speakers in Russia. "Any country that interfers with the SMO will experience immediate retaliation never seen in history" - Fail. Ukraine has shot more missiles into NATO territory than Russia. One. "Europe will freeze without Russian gas" - Fail. "The Moskva is unsinkable" - Fail. Its been promoted to a submarine "Kherson is now part of Russia forever" - Fail. Six weeks later Russia ran away. "Sanctions will not work" - Fail. Ruble free falling against all world currencies. Edited July 31, 2023 by Mandy Lifeboats Added details 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Just as a little side note here, Guantanamo Bay on Cuba is land the U.S. refused to leave when the revolution happened. When the Bay of Pigs invasion happened there was bombing by B26 aircraft ‘acquired’ by the CIA for the counter revolutionaries. As you were… But US boots in Cuban cities, murdering Civilians? Missiles into heart of cities? Artillery barrages literally Levelling multiple cities to the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) One thing's for certain, Russian disinformation campaigns aren't all that thought out. The university boards where my son works had the exact same post posted today, but the name of the user had .ru in his nick, how stupid can you get... Now that Wagner is dismantled in Russia (they used to run the IRS - Russia's disinfo campaigns and troll farms), we're back to the FSB running the clown show. Expect nicks like 'ImDefinitelyNotRussian' or 'PutinMyHero' 'Vladimir4ever.ru'. Edited July 31, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 hours ago, sidcow said: But US boots in Cuban cities, murdering Civilians? Missiles into heart of cities? Artillery barrages literally Levelling multiple cities to the ground? Oh absolutely, your point was correct. I was just showing I once read a book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 31, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 31, 2023 Father of Scottish descent with heavy Welsh influence. Google comes up with nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 23 hours ago, DewiMckay said: Since Ukraine became an independent state was who or what could potentially guarantee its security. After the fall of USSR the Ukrainian government thought that it could defend itself. It had inherited some Soviet nuclear weapons, alas they failed to bypass the security locks integrated into the nuclear warheads. Furthermore, there was pressure from the U.S. to get rid of those devices as the Ukraine at that time was prolific in selling its Soviet era weapons to various shady actors around the world. Ukraine, together with Belarus and Kazakhstan, was pressed to enter the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. In exchange it got the Budapest Memorandum, a weak promise of non-interference. Today - During the preparations of the NATO Vilnius summit (11–12 July 2023,), it had become clear that NAYO members would not agree to Ukraine's membership, U.S. President Biden suggested an alternative to NATO membership, a la the security US provides for Israel “I don’t think it’s ready for membership in NATO,” Biden said of Ukraine. “I don’t think there is unanimity in NATO about whether or not to bring Ukraine into the NATO family now, at this moment, in the middle of a war.” “And one of the things I indicated is, the United States would be ready to provide, while the process was going on, and that’s gonna take a while, to provide security a la the security we provide for Israel: providing the weaponry they need, the capacity to defend themselves,” Biden said, adding, “If there is an agreement, if there is a ceasefire, if there is a peace agreement.” Further Listening from 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 31, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 31, 2023 I had hoped I'd left Mearsheimer in the past when I finished my degree. Sadly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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