Mr_Dogg Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Genie said: The other thought I have had, in the beginning of the war we (in the West, the good guys?) were very worried about upsetting Russia too much and causing a escalation which would have killed a lot of people. Maybe we were worried they’d have destroyed and entire city with a big bomb. Instead we’ve gone with the softly, softly approach which has killed a lot of people, destroyed several cities but over a longer period of time… and gained little. No big bomb, but they are subtly (or not so subtle) trying to starve people, bombing the grain silos, infrastructure and ports. We'll be alright but it's the poorest people of the world that will suffer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 On 25/02/2022 at 10:06, TheAuthority said: Rumors that Putin has offered Zelensky a deal. Russia hang onto Eastern Ukraine and withdraw if he agrees to never join NATO After the way Russia is carrying on,the LAST thing Ukraine would want to do is "not join NATO" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 The bcc this morning were saying that the Russians were digging in, had loads of mine fields and have learnt more battlefield tactics, although they still regard their soldiers as expendable, therefore Ukraine were finding it more difficult to attack....and Autumn and Winter are on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 I don't think the counter offensive is happening fully yet. We've not seen Challengers, seen very few AMX-10s, seen very few CV90's and have barely seen Leo2's in frontline action. There's still 4 or so offensive brigades that haven't been seen on the battlefield. From my understanding the push will likely come when the probing by fire actions start hitting the first proper lines at Solodka Balka. What we're seeing is maneuver warfare to try to put big Russian groups into salients and starving them out. Cluster munitions, albeit an evil after the war, is helping Ukraine a lot as they can eliminate big groups of soldiers much easier. Out of the 10 leo's damaged so far only 3 aren't repairable according to Oryx and the Bradleys are being restocked every time they're lost. If I were to guess something is close to happening as UAF is getting very close to the first line of defense at Solodka Balka, but it could be that Ukraine will use another 2 weeks at softening the defenses up first while also being perfectly happy to take out targets with long range missiles in Crimea\Luhansk\Donetsk. When we start to see Russia posting videos of lancets flying into CV-90's, Challengers and AMX-10s while they're attacking fortifications it's likely that the offensive is underway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 27, 2023 Share Posted July 27, 2023 Russias desperateion continues looking for friends. Some of them are in north Korea at the moment. Next stop iran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) AFU have now hit the first set of dragon's teeth, meaning that they're officially at the first set of proper defenses. Also interesting that they're using old Soviet BMPs as unmanned craft to figure out where the Russians are keeping their ATGMs and machine gun nests. I still don't understand how these dragons teeth are going to do anything, but hey that's just me. Edit: there's a later video in which Ukrainian troops take the exact route this vehicle took to the trench in the middle of the field, and then they're rinsing and repeating in order to avoid mines. Smart. Edited July 28, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Putin wants to destroy western democracy. Look at the coup in Niger- Russian dirty work. The Weat needs to rediscover the resolve of the Cold War era and the determination to preserve Liberal democracy. I feel that we have hrown flabby in the West and Internet conspiracy has eroded belief in Liberal democracy. I Don't know what the answer is but it is all quite troubling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) CNN have geo located Ukrainian attacks 10kms further into Russian lines than what is being widely reported on live maps. UAF are well into the first dragon teeth lines on the pictures. Putin also seems to talk about looking at an African peace plan. Generally that’s a good sign for Ukraine, means Russia have realised that the pressure is getting to them, it happened before they withdrew from Kherson too. Edited July 28, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Ukraine have moved their xmas day from jan to dec 25th like us. Bet that goes down well with the russians. I do wonder if the Ukrainians support this or not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 28, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 28, 2023 36 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Ukraine have moved their xmas day from jan to dec 25th like us. Bet that goes down well with the russians. I do wonder if the Ukrainians support this or not They were extremely in favour of it. They are for anything that removes the Russian connection from their country, they’ve been busy tearing down all the soviet era statues, even the Orthodox Church in Ukraine has separated from the Russian one. What is left of the pro-Russian OC has been under suspicion of spying for Putin. The Ukrainians are very much in favour of the change. Also the change started as far back as 2020 and even prior to that the Julian calendar Xmas was was a public holiday in Ukraine as was the Gregorian Calendar Xmas because there were always a significant proportion of followers of the Romanian OC in Ukraine and the Romanian branch of the faith follow the Julian calendar anyway. Oh and don’t mention the Armenians in Ukraine celebrating it a day later again… Also worth noting that Xmas has only been allowed at all since the end of the soviet era 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, bickster said: They were extremely in favour of it. They are for anything that removes the Russian connection from their country, they’ve been busy tearing down all the soviet era statues, even the Orthodox Church in Ukraine has separated from the Russian one. What is left of the pro-Russian OC has been under suspicion of spying for Putin. The Ukrainians are very much in favour of the change. Also the change started as far back as 2020 and even prior to that the Julian calendar Xmas was was a public holiday in Ukraine as was the Gregorian Calendar Xmas because there were always a significant proportion of followers of the Romanian OC in Ukraine and the Romanian branch of the faith follow the Julian calendar anyway. Oh and don’t mention the Armenians in Ukraine celebrating it a day later again… Also worth noting that Xmas has only been allowed at all since the end of the soviet era Thanks for that insight. Very interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Clicky: Quote Ukraine is on the verge of splitting Russia’s army As Kyiv’s full operational design becomes clearer, we can expect decisive battlefield victories soon After weeks of patient probing of the Russian defensive lines and absorbing irritating criticism from those safely away from the front line, the Ukrainian counter-offensive is gaining real momentum. The arc of optimism would draw parallels with the success of the D-Day landings on June 6 1944, but this counter-offensive should be conceived more in terms of the whole Normandy campaign of June to August 1944. Meticulous preparation, careful reconnaissance, intensive training and unlimited patience are the characteristics of a successful campaign. The Ukrainian army has had to reinvent itself twice since February last year. First, it had to harness the determination of the Ukrainian people to resist Russian aggression with all the defensive capability that it could beg, borrow or steal to protect its independence and sovereignty. Then it became clear that resolution by negotiation was a non-starter given the mutually irreconcilable objectives of Putin and President Zelensky. For the Ukrainian army, this has meant transitioning from being a defensive force to one that is capable of conducting offensive operations, while absorbing new Western equipment. This is akin to driving a Formula One car around Silverstone at 100mph with the mechanics still building the car. The Russians have not been idle. Under the now-disappeared General Sergey Surovikin, the conscripts of the partial Russian mobilisation, with professional engineer guidance, have built formidable lines of defence in eastern Ukraine. These are deep, well constructed and thickly laced with extensive minefields. Over the past two months, the Ukrainian battlefield medics have treated many soldiers suffering traumatic amputations as these defensive positions have been probed for their weaker points. This has been a bloody, painstaking process but one that was essential if the counter-offensive stood any chance of success. That moment would seem to be now, or in the next few days and weeks. The Ukrainian main effort appears to be in the Zaporizhzhia region. A thrust has been made south of Orikhiv, towards Tokmak. This seems to be a reconnaissance in force by one of the Western-equipped attack brigades. Should this probe break into the Russian lines and offer the possibility of a breakthrough, then the bulk of the Ukrainians’ second echelon force, the Tenth Corps, could be committed towards Melitopol on the coast. Tenth Corps holds most of the Western equipment and its troops are well-led, trained and comparatively fresh. However, the Ukrainians are also pressing around Bakhmut and Vuhledar, sowing uncertainty in the minds of Russian commanders. This may soon create the circumstances for a break-out beyond the defensive zone and into more open country. It is then that the Western equipment and thinking would begin to pay dividends. The Russian army does not need to be defeated in detail but the typical Russian soldier must be made to feel the fear of being bypassed, with his enemy behind him, and for his commanders to realise that they have been outmanoeuvred. Death, withdrawal or surrender. A successful strike on the axis Tokmak to Melitopol could split the Russian forces, presenting the possibility of those in the Kherson region being cut off and surrounded. Moreover, the land corridor to Crimea would be vulnerable to interdiction and the prospect of the Russian garrison there being isolated. These are all potential developments as the full Ukrainian operational design becomes clearer. At this stage, much is still speculation, but the developments of recent days present the possibility of decisive moves on the battlefield. Given this prospect of success, the wider strategic goal must remain an independent Ukraine. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 (edited) Hopefully the optimism above is well founded, and might also explain why Putin is talking about a peace agreement. Quote Russian President Vladimir Putin has said he does not reject the idea of peace talks on Ukraine. Speaking after meeting African leaders in St Petersburg, he said African and Chinese initiatives could serve as a basis for finding peace. ————— Kyiv says it will not concede any territory but Moscow says Kyiv must accept its country's "new territorial reality" link Edited July 30, 2023 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted July 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2023 Peace deal would be the easiest in history. He leaves all the land he invaded, and there’s peace. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 Big words Quote Ukraine's President Volodymr Zelensky has warned war is coming to Russia after a drone attack on the capital Moscow. Mr Zelensky said attacks on Russian territory were an "inevitable, natural and absolutely fair process" of the war between the two countries. link Does Zelensky have the backing of his sponsors to start attacking Russia in Russia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 The biggest issue though is that russia will argue the weapons being supplied by the west is to protect ukraine not to be used on russian soil. Can see a fallout out of this but how can russia complain of a terrorist attack after what they have done to ukraine?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 7 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Peace deal would be the easiest in history. He leaves all the land he invaded, and there’s peace. I'd imagine Ukraine would want some sort of financial reparations from Russia to repair the damage. Unless America has some sort of 'Marshall Plan' to repair Ukraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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