allani Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Genie said: Trump can come up with whatever he likes but a proposal of a treaty will need more than just his signature on it. No other western leaders will sign it which will make Trump and the US look stupid and out of touch which is the reason I don’t see that idea getting off the ground. The point is that he will announce that he has a plan and that it will end the war immediately. It will never even get close to becoming an actual treaty - as you say no other leader would sign it off. But Putin will agree to talks based on Trump's "plan for peace", Ukraine will reject it and that will be all that Russia needs to say that the continuation of the war is entirely down to Ukraine. It will be such a monumental foreign policy **** up that the USA will be forced to double down because the only alternative to withdrawing support for Ukraine is admitting that Trump has ****ed everything up. The Republican Party and Trump are only interested in remaining in power and so there is no way that they will risk the equivalent of a vote of no confidence in Trump - regardless of whatever the impact is in Ukraine (which is a long way from the USA). It's not 100% certain that that is how it would play out (you would hope that the foreign policy experts would be able to head Trump off before he can get to the point of announcing a "plan") but I do think that it is the best hope that Putin has. Edited July 17, 2023 by allani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Just now, allani said: The point is that he will announce that he has a plan and that it will end the war immediately. It will never even get close to becoming a treaty. But Putin will agree to talks based on Trump's "plan for peace", Ukraine will reject it and that will be all that Russia needs to say that the continuation of the war is entirely down to Ukraine. It will be such a monumental foreign policy **** up that the USA will be forced to double down because the only alternative to withdrawing support for Ukraine is admitting that Trump has ****ed everything up. The Republican Party and Trump are only interested in remaining in power and so there is no way that they will risk the equivalent of a vote of no confidence in Trump - regardless of whatever the impact is in Ukraine (which is a long way from the USA). It's not 100% certain that that is how it would play out (you would hope that the foreign policy experts would be able to head Trump off before he can get to the point of announcing a "plan") but I do think that it is the best hope that Putin has. I agree with the final part, the people in the US government will warn Trump that his stupid idea will set him in conflict with everyone in the world apart from Russia, and maybe China so it’s a terrible plan which he should keep to himself. Trump continues to surprise but I think on this topic if he ever finds himself in a position of power again he wouldn’t be so stupid to suggest it as an official policy. He’ll brag about talking to Putin or even visiting the Kremlin but I just don’t see him being so foolish to pressure the rest of the world into letting Putin have his wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: I agree with the final part, the people in the US government will warn Trump that his stupid idea will set him in conflict with everyone in the world apart from Russia, and maybe China so it’s a terrible plan which he should keep to himself. Trump continues to surprise but I think on this topic if he ever finds himself in a position of power again he wouldn’t be so stupid to suggest it as an official policy. He’ll brag about talking to Putin or even visiting the Kremlin but I just don’t see him being so foolish to pressure the rest of the world into letting Putin have his wish. I hope you are right. But you wouldn't have expected a President to be so stupid as to continuing claiming that he won the last election when every shred of evidence produced has found the exact opposite. You would have thought that someone would have told him that enraging his supporters, encouraging them to take up arms and doing so within a few minutes walk of the heart of the US Government was probably not a good idea. You would have thought that taking state secrets and moving them between residencies and bragging about the fact that he had them, would have obviously been a bad enough idea that anyone with a shred of intelligence wouldn't have done it (especially after all the stick that he gave Clinton). Trump doesn't give a **** about anything other than trying to make Trump "relevant". I quite literally wouldn't trust him with the keys of my car. Like Putin he has surrounded himself with people who know that their only chance of "power" is to support Trump in everything he says and does - if you question Trump then you are destined to be ejected from his inner circle. He doesn't want sensible people advising him that what he is saying is bat**** crazy. He wants people to tell him how brilliant he is - anyone that doesn't it out on their ear. Like I say you'd hope that someone would manage to convince him not to make a complete **** up of everything. But he managed to give North Korea more legitimacy than they've had for years in his first presidency. So my hopes are pretty low. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Genie said: I don’t think even Trump would back out of supporting Ukraine / opposing Putin. Putin has a lot of incriminating evidence*against Trump that can be leaked to the media at anytime and has Trump on puppet strings. (*Do some googling) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 33 minutes ago, villa89 said: Putin has a lot of incriminating evidence*against Trump that can be leaked to the media at anytime and has Trump on puppet strings. (*Do some googling) It’ll probably be lost in all the noise of everybody else’s incriminating evidence on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 17, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 17, 2023 22 minutes ago, Genie said: It’ll probably be lost in all the noise of everybody else’s incriminating evidence on him. Nah, I think the Moscow Golden Showers photos will rise above the noise (That is if they actually exist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted July 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2023 At the risk of going further off topic, the point with Trump voters is that they don't care about any kind of sleaze. All they care about is that Trump makes them feel better about themselves. Whether that is enough voters to get him over the line is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 17 minutes ago, bickster said: Nah, I think the Moscow Golden Showers photos will rise above the noise (That is if they actually exist) Maybe, but the fact they’re already speculated to exist and the fact Trump is the kind of person to do that sort of thing then it wouldn’t be all that shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Xann Posted July 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2023 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Trump end of war masterplan revealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted July 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Trump end of war masterplan revealed Well that settles it, then. Time to change my plans and vote for Trump. I don't know why anyone else wasn't smart enough to come up with this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 17, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, il_serpente said: Well that settles it, then. Time to change my plans and vote for Trump. I don't know why anyone else wasn't smart enough to come up with this. Guy is a bona fide genius. I've never made a perfect phone call in my life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Trump proving that he’s lost his marbles. He’d tell Zelensky to do a deal, and also threaten Putin with the full might is the US military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: Trump proving that he’s lost his marbles. He’d tell Zelensky to do a deal, and also threaten Putin with the full might is the US military. Putin would probably go along with it because Trump would give him a way to save face. I am pretty sure the Ukrainians would not be pleased though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Genie said: Trump proving that he’s lost his marbles. He never had any marbles to lose. He's brain dead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Putin would probably go along with it because Trump would give him a way to save face. I am pretty sure the Ukrainians would not be pleased though. Trump says he’d give Ukraine a lot, more than they ever got. Why would Ukraine not be pleased about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 Just now, Genie said: Trump says he’d give Ukraine a lot, more than they ever got. Why would Ukraine not be pleased about that? No that was the empty threat to save face, not what would actually happen. I would think the deal will be similar to what Musk proposed, Russia keeps Crimea, the Donbass becomes a semi autonomous satellite state of Russia, Russia pulls back from the recently annexed territory, Ukraine is prevented from joining NATO and must guarantee a water supply to Crimea. I think Russia would go for it as it would be a way out, and probably a better result than they’d get fighting on against a NATO backed Ukraine. Ukraine would not be happy but they wouldn’t have much choice if the US pulled the rug out from under them and started arm twisting the rest of NATO to follow suit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 13 minutes ago, Genie said: Trump says he’d give Ukraine a lot, more than they ever got. Why would Ukraine not be pleased about that? But only if Putin doesn't sign the deal. He's offered Ukraine nothing. In fact he's offered them less than nothing because the implication is that he's telling them to concede all the territory that Russia has taken and expecting them to be happy about it. Imagine China invading the west cost of the USA and NATO telling any US President that they should just give up Washington, Oregon and California. The guy's a ****ing lunatic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 13 minutes ago, LondonLax said: No that was the empty threat to save face, not what would actually happen. I would think the deal will be similar to what Musk proposed, Russia keeps Crimea, the Donbass becomes a semi autonomous satellite state of Russia, Russia pulls back from the recently annexed territory, Ukraine is prevented from joining NATO and must guarantee a water supply to Crimea. I think Russia would go for it as it would be a way out, and probably a better result than they’d get fighting on against a NATO backed Ukraine. Ukraine would not be happy but they wouldn’t have much choice if the US pulled the rug out from under them and started arm twisting the rest of NATO to follow suit. And then when Russia invades Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Georgia, Poland - what is Trump proposing then that he's just going to slap them on the wrist and tell them to stop being such naughty boys before giving them all the territory they want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 17, 2023 Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 minute ago, allani said: And then when Russia invades Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Georgia, Poland - what is Trump proposing then that he's just going to slap them on the wrist and tell them to stop being such naughty boys before giving them all the territory they want? You think Russia would invade a NATO country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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