Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

It is though because they are being tried as mercenaries which they aren't. Both were regular soldiers in the Ukraine Army, they are still British Subjects and entitled to the protection that affords

The Geneva Convention has been broken in relation to British subjects. It is our problem

Legally you may well be right, morally, I'd be quite happy to wash our hands of them.

Innocent brits caught up in it, absolutely, but when you enlist to go and fight in someone else's army, you should be their problem, IMO, they knew what they were doing, and it should be Ukraine's problem to worry about their soldiers, not ours.

[Nicho]

23 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Legally you may well be right, morally, I'd be quite happy to wash our hands of them.

Innocent brits caught up in it, absolutely, but when you enlist to go and fight in someone else's army, you should be their problem, IMO, they knew what they were doing, and it should be Ukraine's problem to worry about their soldiers, not ours.

I agree in general.

A slightly patriotic part of me says that the killing of one of citizens should be enough to go to war over. If that was Prince Harry we’d be all over the threats for one individual. 

Thankfully I had a sit down and I do think if you fight any war unfortunately you are available for the horrible and potentially injust consequences. 

[hippo]

6 hours ago, sidcow said:

The news industry have lost interest in this.  The live tickers have now either disappeared or barely updated.  It's further and further down the news which is now mainly looking at the consequences than the war itself.

I do worry as focus drifts that Government's also lose interest in their support for Ukraine because that is certainly one of the expectations Russia has.

Correct. But I don't see it going away. I feel the west will get involved military at some point.

 

[tinker]

Be interesting if an American citizen gets captured, I could see it getting very 'tense' if execution is on the cards.

[chrisp65]

6 hours ago, Nicho said:

 

If that was Prince Harry we’d be all over the threats for one individual. 

 

[Nicho]

20 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

It was a royal “we”. That sentence is more confused in this context

[KentVillan]

 

[magnkarl]

6 hours ago, KentVillan said:

 

He's probably got liver disease like the majority of Russians over 50.

In fact, Russia has one of the largest issues with liver disease in the world. Mainly due to a bad diet, alcohol and living conditions. It comes in as the 4th largest killer in Russia, with suicide just after it at 5th.

Passion for vodka kills Russian men in their thousands

Quote

A quarter of all Russian men die before they reach their mid-fifties and their passion for alcohol - particularly vodka - is largely to blame, according to research published on Friday.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by magnkarl

[LondonLax]

This was a sobering article this morning.

Quote

Ukraine’s deputy head of military intelligence has said Ukraine is losing against Russia on the frontlines and is now almost solely reliant on weapons from the west to keep Russia at bay.

“This is an artillery war now,” said Vadym Skibitsky, deputy head of Ukraine’s military intelligence. The frontlines were now where the future would be decided, he told the Guardian, “and we are losing in terms of artillery”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine

[sidcow]

Staggering footage here of a decimated Russian position

 

 

[ender4]

14 hours ago, LondonLax said:

This was a sobering article this morning.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine

Why would you tell the enemy that?

[LondonLax]

6 hours ago, ender4 said:

Why would you tell the enemy that?

They are desperate for more support. 

[ender4]

Good point.

So what happens if/once they run out of equipment soon? Russia takes over the whole country and Ukraine resorts to guerrilla warfare?

Have Germany actually sent any heavy weapons yet or are they still too busy paying Russia £3 billion every week for oil and gas?

[LondonLax]

Well it sounds like Russia are also getting low on heavy ammunition. 

It feels a bit like two boxers punching each other to a standstill. Nether side can take any more territory and presumably the next step is to start a negotiation to how to settle it.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

Well it sounds like Russia are also getting low on heavy ammunition. 

It feels a bit like two boxers punching each other to a standstill. Nether side can take any more territory and presumably the next step is to start a negotiation to how to settle it.

Problem is Russia still has enough left to deliver low punch after low punch after low punch with their dumb bombs. 

Ukraine needs a magic sponge. 

[magnkarl]

3 hours ago, ender4 said:

Good point.

So what happens if/once they run out of equipment soon? Russia takes over the whole country and Ukraine resorts to guerrilla warfare?

Have Germany actually sent any heavy weapons yet or are they still too busy paying Russia £3 billion every week for oil and gas?

Russia might take Luhansk, if they’re lucky. Kherson and Zaporizhia oblast is seeing slow Ukrainian progress. Russia is slowly but surely culminating. There’s very few combat effective BTGs left.

With some luck the newest longer range Western weapons will make Ukraine’s fresher brigades able to break through come end of summer.

[Mandy Lifeboats]

On 09/06/2022 at 18:29, tinker said:

Be interesting if an American citizen gets captured, I could see it getting very 'tense' if execution is on the cards.

Unfortunately I think USA has shot itself in the foot. 

I seem to recall the USA saying that foreign fighters in Afghanistan were "illegal combatants" and not entitled to POW status.  

What's the difference? 

 

 

[blandy]

17 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

What's the difference? 

The Geneva convention.

[bickster]

27 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

Unfortunately I think USA has shot itself in the foot. 

I seem to recall the USA saying that foreign fighters in Afghanistan were "illegal combatants" and not entitled to POW status.  

What's the difference? 

 

 

1) The two British citizens have dual nationality, so they aren't foreign by any definition. Both are married to Ukrainian women and Ukraine is their home

2) Both are part of the regular Ukraine Army and have been for a good while (about 2 years I think)

3) and as Blandy says, the Geneva Convention

[Mandy Lifeboats]

55 minutes ago, bickster said:

1) The two British citizens have dual nationality, so they aren't foreign by any definition. Both are married to Ukrainian women and Ukraine is their home

2) Both are part of the regular Ukraine Army and have been for a good while (about 2 years I think)

3) and as Blandy says, the Geneva Convention

I personally agree with you both. But I was specifically talking about the US opinion on this.  Which is - 

"An unlawful combatant, illegal combatant or unprivileged combatant/belligerent is a person who directly engages in armed conflict in violation of the laws of war and therefore is is not protected by the Geneva Conventions."

That's not helpful in the long run. It's far better to say all combatants are protected by the Geneva Convention. 

Another problem here is that Russia are telling the UK to address the matter with the independent Republic of Donbass ( or whatever they are calling themselves).  The UK does not recognise that country. By engaging with them it means we are recognising them as the legitimate authority.  

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Mandy Lifeboats
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