theunderstudy Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 With regards to the Moskva... what it is classified as? The Russians are stating it was an explosion of ammunition with no deaths right? So not a war grave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 17 minutes ago, bickster said: I think that assumption is incorrect. I think last time I looked Sevastopol Harbour was only just outside Missile Range from Ukraine Sinking the salvage ship would seem a very achievable goal. Especially when NATO will tell Ukraine exactly where it is. I was listening to a podcast by an India Naval Engineer who was talking about the Moskva. He came up with some very interesting points. Apparently Russia didn't have much money when it was refurbished so they omitted a modern damage control system. Modern warships would have begun fighting the fire automatically within seconds of the missile hit. Moskva relied upon the crew rushing towards the fire and ignoring the dead and injured to fight the fire. He also said the most vital part of a modern damage control system is its ability to identify adjoining compartments to the damage and undertaking automatic fire suppression. UK and USA have learnt from their mistakes when their ships have been hit by missiles. He gave a small example that would make a huge difference. US Navy boots have a sole which is heat resistant. If you are trying to escape from a burning ship your Nikeski trainers aren't going to last. Especially if the fire is on the deck below you and you don't realise how hot the floor is. Russia hasn't suffered significant missile strikes to their ships and isn't geared up to recover from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, theunderstudy said: With regards to the Moskva... what it is classified as? The Russians are stating it was an explosion of ammunition with no deaths right? So not a war grave... No they're not saying that no deaths have occurred. I believe they claim one death and so many missing still. In other words dead. I think they're also lying about the number missing. It's classified as sunk via incompetence during a special military operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 25, 2022 Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2022 Moskva has been classified by Ukraine as a site of Underwater Cultural Heritage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, theunderstudy said: With regards to the Moskva... what it is classified as? The Russians are stating it was an explosion of ammunition with no deaths right? So not a war grave... The official line is 1 dead and 26 missing. I presume the dead will be buried with honour. About a year from now they will also be identified as the incompetents who caused the explosion and the case closed. The interesting time will be when 28 wives/mothers of the dead contact one another and realise the figures don't add up. But that will be blamed on Putin after he suffers his heart attack that's due soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 25, 2022 Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Sinking the salvage ship would seem a very achievable goal. Especially when NATO will tell Ukraine exactly where it is. I was listening to a podcast by an India Naval Engineer who was talking about the Moskva. He came up with some very interesting points. Apparently Russia didn't have much money when it was refurbished so they omitted a modern damage control system. Modern warships would have begun fighting the fire automatically within seconds of the missile hit. Moskva relied upon the crew rushing towards the fire and ignoring the dead and injured to fight the fire. He also said the most vital part of a modern damage control system is its ability to identify adjoining compartments to the damage and undertaking automatic fire suppression. UK and USA have learnt from their mistakes when their ships have been hit by missiles. He gave a small example that would make a huge difference. US Navy boots have a sole which is heat resistant. If you are trying to escape from a burning ship your Nikeski trainers aren't going to last. Especially if the fire is on the deck below you and you don't realise how hot the floor is. Russia hasn't suffered significant missile strikes to their ships and isn't geared up to recover from them. There's a slight issue though, there's no way of knowing if the Moskva was carrying nuclear warheads. Ukraine were of the opinion that it had two on board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, bickster said: There's a slight issue though, there's no way of knowing if the Moskva was carrying nuclear warheads. Ukraine were of the opinion that it had two on board and still fired Missiles at it?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 25, 2022 Moderator Share Posted April 25, 2022 Just now, Genie said: and still fired Missiles at it?!? Could well be Propaganda, hard to tell really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 40 minutes ago, bickster said: There's a slight issue though, there's no way of knowing if the Moskva was carrying nuclear warheads. Ukraine were of the opinion that it had two on board The chances of a modern warhead being detonated by a fire or explosion is very remote.. The worst case scenario is that it would break apart. But 3m of water is enough to stop radioactive contamination. I don't think there has even been a nuclear weapon detonated unintentionally. But I shall look that up out of interest. The biggest risk is that the radiation creates a new batch of superheroes. But Chernobyl has millions of radioactive spiders.............. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: I don't think there has even been a nuclear weapon detonated unintentionally. But I shall look that up out of interest. There have been over 1000 intentional detonations and zero accidental ones. The consensus seems to be that getting a weapon to intentionally explode is such a challenge that the chances of accidentally replicating it are almost zero. I was amused to read about an incident in USA in 1980. A workman dropped a spanner 40 feet onto a missile in a silo. The impact punctured the fuel tank which subsequently caused the missile to launch itself with several warheads. It landed a short distance away killing 1 poor sod it landed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: There have been over 1000 intentional detonations and zero accidental ones. The consensus seems to be that getting a weapon to intentionally explode is such a challenge that the chances of accidentally replicating it are almost zero. NATO should nullify the nuclear threat held by Russia by blowing up all the locations they believe are storing nuclear weapons. Job done. Edit: to be clear that was very tongue in cheek based on the assessment its “zero risk” of setting one off by accident. Edited April 25, 2022 by Genie 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 14 minutes ago, Genie said: NATO should nullify the nuclear threat held by Russia by blowing up all the locations they believe are storing nuclear weapons. Job done. well that could cause mad Putin to launch some of them before they are destroyed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 1 hour ago, bickster said: There's a slight issue though, there's no way of knowing if the Moskva was carrying nuclear warheads. Ukraine were of the opinion that it had two on board So if Ukraine go and collect the two before Russia get there... does that make Ukraine a nuclear power 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 21 minutes ago, Genie said: NATO should nullify the nuclear threat held by Russia by blowing up all the locations they believe are storing nuclear weapons. Job done. I believe that is what the CND are advocating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted April 25, 2022 A nuke isn't like an explosive. It requires a complex set of reactions to happen precisely to explode. The worst that can happen with the destruction of a nuclear weapon is, essentially, in the process of blowing it up you create a dirty bomb by proxy - the destructive explosion throws up the radioactive materials in the nuke and creates harmful dust. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Im suprised no one has thought of assination as a solution to this Russia problem.Apparently Mossad is very very good at that ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: Im suprised no one has thought of assination as a solution to this Russia problem.Apparently Mossad is very very good at that ?! I’m sure a lot of people have thought about it in great detail. Edited April 25, 2022 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Genie said: I’m sure a lot of people have thought about it in great detail. I wish they would get on with it then.I can understand how the people in the Ukraine feel because Putin is getting right up my nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted April 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: Im suprised no one has thought of assination as a solution to this Russia problem.Apparently Mossad is very very good at that ?! It's harder to kill world leaders than you'd think. The CIA spent decades trying to kill Castro, lest we forget, the leader of a tiny nation that was so isolated it made brake fluid out of shampoo and was on their doorstep. Mossad kills little people - scientists, military people, leading figures of groups opposed to Israel, particularly those linked to attacks on Israel, which isn't dissimilar to taking out gang leaders. They don't kill world leaders. It's too difficult and causes bigger issues, and doesn't achieve much in their greater strategic goals. The most successful at killing high level politicians seem to be lone nutters with a gun, and Putin is very careful to ensure he's basically never around the public. And then you have the whole Hitler fallacy - is this invasion of Ukraine purely at Putin's beck and call, or are there other ranking figures in Russia who also fancy the idea? Does killing Putin end it? Probably not, even with all of his power in Russia there's probably people around him that also think this is a good idea, and may not change their mind if he suddenly keels over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 25, 2022 Share Posted April 25, 2022 Another Russian facility on fire, this time an airbase near Vladivostok - 4400 miles from Kyiv. Ukraine didn’t hit this place with a missile! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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