Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[avfc1982am]

31 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

So is it worth investing in Moldovan flags now?  Judging by how much weight Putin's head has put on recently, hopefully he is seriously ill and dead by then.

If he's intent on linking Russia with Transnistria then it's imo inevitable he has eyes on linking Kaliningrad eventually. 

[sidcow]

Crikey. We're sending them some Challanger 2  battle tanks according to The BBC. 

That's some serious hardware.  Going to make mincemeat of those 70's Soviet Era tanks. 

Oh sorry, sending them to POLAND to replace the tanks Poland are sending to Ukraine. Stand down. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by sidcow

[Anthony]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

Crikey. We're sending them some Challanger 2  battle tanks according to The BBC. 

That's some serious hardware.  Going to make mincemeat of those 70's Soviet Era tanks. 

Hmm. How long does training normally take for a Challenger 2?

[sidcow]

Just now, Anthony said:

Hmm. How long does training normally take for a Challenger 2?

Apologies, amended my post as above. 

[ender4]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

India is bulk buying Russian fossil fuels (at a discount) which is helping prop up Russia's war and economy. 

Germany are the main culprit funding Russia's war by sending them Billions of Euros every month in exchange for gas and oil. 

The Indian purchase is a tiny drop compared to Germany and other European countries.

[blandy]

27 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Germany are the main culprit funding Russia's war by sending them Billions of Euros every month in exchange for gas and oil. 

The Indian purchase is a tiny drop compared to Germany and other European countries.

That's true, but India has stepped up its buying massively to take advantage of the pricing situation. It's their choice, and there are reasons and context and all the rest, but part of that context is Russia pulverising towns and cities and people in Ukraine

Quote

Refiners in India, the world’s third biggest oil importer and consumer, have been buying Russian oil through spot tenders since Moscow’s invasion on 24 February, taking advantage of heavy discounts as other buyers back away. India has bought at least 13m barrels of Russian oil since 24 February, compared with nearly 16m barrels in all of 2021.

 

[LondonLax]

India has a surprisingly (to me at least) strong relationship with Russia that goes back a long way. 

It’s also a bit interesting that many of the English speaking pro Russia accounts on Twitter seem to be coming out of India. 

[Awol]

I’m unclear whether we are giving Poland a number of Chally 2 (and giving their logisticians nightmares in the process), or deploying British units forward to Poland to fill the capability gap created by gifting T72s to Ukraine (a more sensible approach)?

I wonder when someone in UK politics might wake up to the fact we no longer design and build tanks here? Pretty pathetic situation for a P5 member, or maybe we can have another speech from Boris on how tanks are obsolete in modern warfare (hence no one wanting them…).

[bickster]

Worth a read on the artillery and related ordnance the US are now going to deliver to Ukraine

 

[tonyh29]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

India is bulk buying Russian fossil fuels (at a discount) which is helping prop up Russia's war and economy. What they say and what they do are not the same.

it used to buy 2% of its oil from Russia  .. around 12 million barrels a year  ..in Jan and Feb they didn't purchase any Russian oil , March and April they appear to have purchased around 14 million barrels at a discount of around $30 a barrel v the Brent crude price ..

Coal imports from Russia are at  a 2 year high  ..however they recently signed a trade deal with Australia removing tariffs on coal and indications seem to be that they will then look to Australia rather than Russia for their coal , assuming Australia can meet the demand  

so clearly they are putting profit, India first in all this and exploiting as required 

but its not clear how India are actually paying for the Russian coal and  oil , the US have already warned them that paying via a currency swap could undermine the yankee $ and have issued 2 warnings to India , saying " there won't be a third"   .. implying America could raise sanctions against India 

 

[Anthony]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

India has a surprisingly (to me at least) strong relationship with Russia that goes back a long way. 

It started after independence. Unsurprisingly they wanted to reduce dependence on the UK, so they've always had a balance of 'Western' input and 'Soviet/Russian' input. Nicely playing both to get the best deal.

[tonyh29]

58 minutes ago, Awol said:

and build tanks here?

I was under the impression the Challenger 3 tanks are planned to be built in  in Shropshire with the  hulls coming from Bovingdon 

The turrets will be made in Germany as the BAE deal is a joint venture  ,  assuming the MOD finally confirm the 1200mm ammunition / L55A1 smoothbore gun ?

 

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

assuming the MOD finally confirm the 1200mm ammunition / L55A1 smoothbore gun ?

That was accepted last year I think. $800 million deal was signed

[Hobsons Choice]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

That's true, but India has stepped up its buying massively to take advantage of the pricing situation. It's their choice, and there are reasons and context and all the rest, but part of that context is Russia pulverising towns and cities and people in Ukraine

 

India probably don't want to piss off the Russia China axis because of their issues along their northern border.

[avfc1982am]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

India probably don't want to piss off the Russia China axis because of their issues along their northern border.

I don't think so. India have had several skirmishes along the border with China. That's being going on for quite a while. 

[Hobsons Choice]

2 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

I don't think so. India have had several skirmishes along the border with China. That's being going on for quite a while. 

If I were them I wouldn't want to give China an excuse/mandate to step up operations there. The Indian army stands no chance against a committed China. Could be means to de-escalate.

[avfc1982am]

Just now, HKP90 said:

If I were them I wouldn't want to give China an excuse/mandate to step up operations there. The Indian army stands no chance against a committed China. Could be means to de-escalate.

I'm not sure about that. India have a decent enough military to defend themselves. Also, I think there is a bit of a myth surrounding China. They are not by nature an invading nation or in anyway aggressive unlike some nations, including our own. They take the piss, but what top table nation doesn't unless they're put in check. In a similar way to Russia, the illusion of strength is sometimes better than the reality. It's cheaper for a start and you don't have to spend years in conflict watching soldiers die in order to create veterans and in turn increase military knowledge. You look at the UK, we've spent nearly the last 30 years in conflicts. From Eastern Europe, The Middle East. Back to Europe in another format as support. It's what we do in the UK when not fighting each other.

[Awol]

Health and safety failures continuing to afflict critical war industries in Russia. Really terrible timing - if you’re a psychopath bent on genocide.

 

[Awol]

58 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I was under the impression the Challenger 3 tanks are planned to be built in  in Shropshire with the  hulls coming from Bovingdon 

The turrets will be made in Germany as the BAE deal is a joint venture  ,  assuming the MOD finally confirm the 1200mm ammunition / L55A1 smoothbore gun ?

 

Not a new tank mate, it’s a life extension upgrade for existing Chally 2s. The tank factory and the expertise to design new ones got the chop under Blair. 

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

I was under the impression the Challenger 3 tanks are planned to be built in  in Shropshire with the  hulls coming from Bovingdon 

The turrets will be made in Germany as the BAE deal is a joint venture  ,  assuming the MOD finally confirm the 1200mm ammunition / L55A1 smoothbore gun ?

 

I think Challanger 3 tanks are just massive upgrades to existing Challanger 2 tanks. Not a brand new tank. 

Interestingly as is usual with The UK they were only going to upgrade a certain number of Challanger 2's and decommission the rest leaving us with far less tanks than we currently have. 

What's the betting the ones we're sending to Poland are the ones which were going to be decommissioned anyway. 

You would have thought with what's going on and major tank battles actually happening they would revise their plans and upgrade all the Challanger 2's.

Maybe they will actually buy some new ones from Germany or USA after all which is what they were considering before agreeing the Challanger 3 upgrade. Obviously they chose the cheaper option. 

Or maybe have a go at building our own again. Get it right and we might be able to sell abroad again like in the olden days and actually turn a profit.  Not sure if such infrastructure has literally gone never to be seen again. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by sidcow