Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[Jareth]

I wondered why the good Russian Catholics were ignoring the pope, until I googled it and realised the Russians have their own church that does not recognise the pope. They really are set up for their way or nobody else's way - they are stuck in 1945. clearings in the woods. 

[Davkaus]

20 hours ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said:

Grim but a good example of the rabbit holes that covid denialism has sent people down. Almost seems that a big proportion of those who lost their mind on covid have gone down the route of being pro Russian too (along with a few other common routes)

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61009245

Quote

Matt Le Tissier says he has "stepped aside" from his role as ambassador at former club Southampton.

The former midfielder said he took the step to "separate the work I believe in from my relationship with the club."

 

On Tuesday, he deleted a tweet suggesting media manipulation in the reporting on the war in Ukraine.

"My views are my own and always have been, and it's important to take this step today to avoid any confusion," Le Tissier wrote on Twitter.

"I will always remain a fan and supporter of everything Saints. I can, however, see that due to recent events it's important to separate the work I believe in from my relationship with the club."

After deleting the tweet about the war in Ukraine, the 53-year-old said it was because people were "missing the point" and insisted he did not advocate war "in any way shape or form."

[Mr_Dogg]

15 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I wondered why the good Russian Catholics were ignoring the pope, until I googled it and realised the Russians have their own church that does not recognise the pope. They really are set up for their way or nobody else's way - they are stuck in 1945. clearings in the woods. 

They are orthodox Christians in Russia and much of eastern Europe. For a 1000 years!

[Awol]

14 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I wondered why the good Russian Catholics were ignoring the pope, until I googled it and realised the Russians have their own church that does not recognise the pope. They really are set up for their way or nobody else's way - they are stuck in 1945. clearings in the woods. 

To be fair, the Russian Orthodox Church stemmed from Byzantium and the Eastern Roman Empire. Its provenance as a legit Christian tradition carries far more weight than the Church of England, but (as you say) it’s been hijacked by the Russian state for national myth-making propaganda purposes.

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

 

[The Fun Factory]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

I wondered why the good Russian Catholics were ignoring the pope, until I googled it and realised the Russians have their own church that does not recognise the pope. They really are set up for their way or nobody else's way - they are stuck in 1945. clearings in the woods. 

Yeah that happened in 1054. 

[Awol]

Looks like Mariupol will be orders of magnitude worse than what happened around Kyiv. 

Maybe some balance is required, but I’ll leave that to anyone more inclined to provide it.

[Genie]

How many weeks ago was it that Boris said that the west didn’t do enough to stop Putin the past? but still ok with watching this unfold. 

[magnkarl]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61009245

Good riddance, I hope that's the last I ever hear of him. Now on to the next tin pot idiot - Rickie Lambert. A guy peddling covid misinformation like cups of tea.

[Davkaus]

12 minutes ago, Genie said:

How many weeks ago was it that Boris said that the west didn’t do enough to stop Putin the past? but still ok with watching this unfold. 

I couldn't believe he had the brass neck to start preaching about people deserving to know the truth. 

On balance he seems to be handling this quite well, but take the wins where you can get them without looking like a right Boris Johnson, eh old chap. 

[magnkarl]

TBH, on this exact issue I don't think BoJo is terrible. On all other things he's about as effective as a slug crossing the M25 on a scorching summer's day.

[sidcow]

16 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

TBH, on this exact issue I don't think BoJo is terrible. On all other things he's about as effective as a slug crossing the M25 on a scorching summer's day.

In his minds eye he's picturing Putin as another school age child to be shoulder charged down on his way to glory.

[sidcow]

These months are going to go down in History.  There is much scope for modern day politicians to build a lasting legacy

Zelensky has already booked himself a place on the all time legends table.

Macron has mainly come across as a modern Chamberlain.

Putin now after these atrocities.....which are inevitably going to get worse is heading for Hitler kind of infamy.

We're living in extraordinary times.

Edited April 6, 2022 by sidcow

[Awol]

14 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

TBH, on this exact issue I don't think BoJo is terrible. On all other things he's about as effective as a slug crossing the M25 on a scorching summer's day.

He (and we) had the good fortune that Ben Wallace was SoS for Defence over the period running up to this. All Johnson had to do was get out of the way and agree to the actions put in front of him. It could so easily have been Gavin Williamson in the MoD chair and a very different outcome. 

After this we might (but won’t) consider the benefit of having MPs with a level of subject matter expertise assigned as Ministers to the relevant departments of state. Or we could carry on with the biggest arselickers in a party being given the biggest jobs, and hope to simply luck our way through wars / Covid / education crisis etc. 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

I am not sure why people are calling for Putin to be convicted for war crimes?   I doubt he's been stupid enough to put anything in writing telling his army to conduct war crimes. He has overall responsibility but that's not enough.  

My prediction is thus - 

The soldiers guilty of those crimes will soon be conveniently killed in action.  This will prevent them testifying that the chain of command ordered or tolerated their actions. 

If pressured, Russia will investigate the matter and conclude that a group of foreign fighters, local militia and a few Russian soldiers committed the atrocities.  But they are all dead now. 

 

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, Jareth said:

I wondered why the good Russian Catholics were ignoring the pope, until I googled it and realised the Russians have their own church that does not recognise the pope. They really are set up for their way or nobody else's way - they are stuck in 1945. clearings in the woods. 

Even if Russia were Catholic (which it never has been), do you think the Pope could have stopped the war? Shared religious beliefs go out the window very quickly when territory is at stake.

[KentVillan]

11 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

I am not sure why people are calling for Putin to be convicted for war crimes?   I doubt he's been stupid enough to put anything in writing telling his army to conduct war crimes. He has overall responsibility but that's not enough.  

My prediction is thus - 

The soldiers guilty of those crimes will soon be conveniently killed in action.  This will prevent them testifying that the chain of command ordered or tolerated their actions. 

If pressured, Russia will investigate the matter and conclude that a group of foreign fighters, local militia and a few Russian soldiers committed the atrocities.  But they are all dead now. 

You think he'll get off war crimes on a loophole?

I don't think he's getting done for war crimes, because I don't think he's getting arrested. But if he does somehow get arrested and tried for war crimes, he's 100% guilty. Saying he was on the toilet reading a book while an old lady in Bucha got raped isn't really going to fly as an alibi.

[bickster]

19 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said:

I am not sure why people are calling for Putin to be convicted for war crimes?   I doubt he's been stupid enough to put anything in writing telling his army to conduct war crimes. He has overall responsibility but that's not enough.  

My prediction is thus - 

The soldiers guilty of those crimes will soon be conveniently killed in action.  This will prevent them testifying that the chain of command ordered or tolerated their actions. 

If pressured, Russia will investigate the matter and conclude that a group of foreign fighters, local militia and a few Russian soldiers committed the atrocities.  But they are all dead now. 

 

I think the scale of this is well beyond that now, it doesn't require testimony of individuals to prove this genocide

[Genie]

I just can’t see how Russia goes forward from this with Putin in charge. 
The only hope they have is if there’s a major regime shift, and even then it’s going to be bleak for a decade or 2.

[KentVillan]

10 minutes ago, Genie said:

I just can’t see how Russia goes forward from this with Putin in charge. 
The only hope they have is if there’s a major regime shift, and even then it’s going to be bleak for a decade or 2.

I honestly think it's 50/50 whether the next guy is better or worse than Putin. We tend to think these pariah states will start fixing themselves when the dictator dies, but there are plenty of examples to the contrary.