Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[foreveryoung]

8 minutes ago, Genie said:

They already have twice as much land as the next biggest country, are they really bothered about a bit more? I don’t think so and it won’t wash back home.

In 10 years time they’ll be more concerned about the massive scar on their economy, the humiliation of retreating from Ukraine, the huge slump in living standards and the memorials to a generation of dead soldiers. 

Won't be the first time they have withdrawn and give up. They couldn't even manage the Mujahideen in Afganistan, lost that too in 88.

There is actually little proof that Russia are actually the fighting force they are all made out to be. Seems like all the advanced weaponry is propaganda.

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

I don’t think Putin will care about most of that. 

Neither do I, I was referring to the country and the people in general.

[chrisp65]

8 minutes ago, Genie said:

Neither do I, I was referring to the country and the people in general.

The country will care about what the country is told to care about.

Mother Russia will be larger, nazi’s defeated, family reunited. That the West took the opportunity to make Russians materially poorer will only prove they need a strong man president to stand up for them. Why, Biden himself said that the West wants regime change.

[Genie]

24 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

The country will care about what the country is told to care about.

Mother Russia will be larger, nazi’s defeated, family reunited. That the West took the opportunity to make Russians materially poorer will only prove they need a strong man president to stand up for them. Why, Biden himself said that the West wants regime change.

I think the percentage of the population who swallow what they are told by the state controlled media will get smaller and smaller.

Biden also said the fight was not with the Russian people.

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

Biden also said the fight was not with the Russian people

The Russian people won't know that though

[magnkarl]

51 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

The country will care about what the country is told to care about.

Mother Russia will be larger, nazi’s defeated, family reunited. That the West took the opportunity to make Russians materially poorer will only prove they need a strong man president to stand up for them. Why, Biden himself said that the West wants regime change.

You think?

 

[chrisp65]

6 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

You think?

 

I’m not convinced 140 million Russians are tapping AmneziaVPN in to their iPads as we speak.

I’m not convinced a couple of per cent of that population are.

 

 

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

The country will care about what the country is told to care about.

Mother Russia will be larger, nazi’s defeated, family reunited. That the West took the opportunity to make Russians materially poorer will only prove they need a strong man president to stand up for them. Why, Biden himself said that the West wants regime change.

The Russian mentality is to rally round the strongest leader during times of difficulty.

For most Russians the most chaotic time in their lives was during the experiment with free market democracy in the 90s.

The result of that time was an even more assured understanding that the way to an orderly life is to embrace a tough leader who is in control.  

[Awol]

First the resupply convoys, then the supply dumps, now the ammo depots within Russia. Nice.
 

 

 

[Genie]

 

[bickster]

34 minutes ago, Awol said:

First the resupply convoys, then the supply dumps, now the ammo depots within Russia. Nice.
 

 

 

I presume that Belgogrod was where the routed 4th Guards Tank Division were heading to re-group, thats just scuppered that plan a little more

[Genie]

37 minutes ago, Awol said:

First the resupply convoys, then the supply dumps, now the ammo depots within Russia. Nice.
 

 

 

No mention of this on the ITV news, it should be a big deal shouldn’t it?

[bickster]

16 minutes ago, Genie said:

No mention of this on the ITV news, it should be a big deal shouldn’t it?

It might not be a Ukrainian strike, no one is sure. It could just be general Russian incompetence

[Awol]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

I presume that Belgogrod was where the routed 4th Guards Tank Division were heading to re-group, thats just scuppered that plan a little more

Could well be. Seems the place now exploding (not within the city of Belgogrod itself) was either being used, or was close to, artillery positions that were used to shell Kharkiv. At the very least it’s many tons of explosive that Russia can’t now fire at Ukrainian civilians, whoever or whatever was ultimately responsible for the explosion. 

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, magnkarl said:

You think?

 

VPN is not a big thing in Russia though. It would be only a younger percent of the population who would be up to date on modern technology and most of them have probably been conscripted into the army already

[magnkarl]

10 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

I’m not convinced 140 million Russians are tapping AmneziaVPN in to their iPads as we speak.

I’m not convinced a couple of per cent of that population are.

 

 

You may not be convinced of this, but even if a small part of the population can, they can still print this material out, show others and encourage change. This constant pessimism on behalf of 140 million people is bleak, they're human just like the rest of us. Russia has had more revolutions than most other countries, precisely because they've fostered the kind of 'few percent' that you're talking about. The war in Afghanistan is proof that this kind of conflict has brought a Russian autocracy down before, so what is your proof that this can't happen again?

Throw in social media and the fact that Putin can't control technology and information like they could in USSR and I see no reason why a revolution can't happen again.

Edited March 30, 2022 by magnkarl

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

Germany really not coming out of this looking very good are they. You’d think they’d want to come out on the right side of history for once

 

 

[Genie]

Of all the places in the world I’d assume Russia is most familiar with regular use of  VPN’s.

[chrisp65]

13 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

You may not be convinced of this, but even if a small part of the population can, they can still print this material out, show others and encourage change. This constant pessimism on behalf of 140 million people is bleak, they're human just like the rest of us. Russia has had more revolutions than most other countries, precisely because they've fostered the kind of 'few percent' that you're talking about. The war in Afghanistan is proof that this kind of conflict has brought a Russian autocracy down before, so what is your proof that this can't happen again?

Throw in social media and the fact that Putin can't control technology like they could in USSR and I see no reason why a revolution can't happen again.

 

 

It’s not constant pessimism, it’s just not euphoria.

It’s just not the fantasy of Russia having no ships, only having 10 days in the tank, and a popular uprising springing from people printing out screen grabs from AmneziaVPN.

Yes, another revolution could happen, it’s definitely on the spectrum of possible outcomes. But if I had to put my own pound on the outcome, I’d stick it on things in Russia being roughly the same politically in 12 months time, and they have a little more land.

I’d happily be proved wrong.

[chrisp65]

2 minutes ago, Genie said:

Of all the places in the world I’d assume Russia is most familiar with regular use of  VPN’s.

Hey, look, if AmneziaVPN is the tipping point that causes positive regime change in Russia, I’d be quite pleased.

Just not convinced yet.

I’m not against it, I’m not pro Putin, I’m not an eternal pessimist. 

But I’d rather have the news ‘straight’ and know we have a long expensive Hot and Cold War ahead of us that we need to win. Rather than be told I’ll be home for Christmas.