LondonLax Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 If the US was named guarantor but Trump or someone from his stable became President again in a few years are we sure which side the US would take in any future dispute between Russia and Ukraine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted March 18, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 18, 2022 stupid question, but could ukraine agree to some of the demands now, then re negotiate once russia get themselves a 'nicer' president? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 18, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 18, 2022 24 minutes ago, Tayls said: This is where a guarantor will be of help. It will state that if Ukraine was to come under attack by Russia again in the future, then X, Y and Z will help to defend it. By what means, I don’t know. SANCTIONS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Surely only a fool would agree to become defenceless in response to being attacked. It doesn’t matter who agrees on paper to come to your aid under attack, when push comes to shove can anyone actually be counted on to do something? Surely they’ll all fall back to the idea that Russia has nukes so cannot be engaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NoelVilla Posted March 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 17 minutes ago, NoelVilla said: I’ve seen pictures where they’ve used the caging to mount tree branches and things for camouflage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Looks the ruskies have hacked the BBC news feed on this topic ! Edited March 18, 2022 by hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 51 minutes ago, blandy said: In negotiations, it seems like Russia always demands something it knows cannot be granted. It was the same before they invaded as it is now - they're asking for stuff which they know cannot be conceded (alongside some stuff which might be). I don't know if it's to give them an excuse to walk away, or if it's in the hope that they get something that otherwise wouldn't be granted. But it seems likely that it will fail. Asking for ridiculous terms allows him to continue down the barbaric path he has started. I don't think for one minute Russia is taking seriously ceasefire negotiations. It's like going through the process for others. They're still trying to flood Ukraine with armour and support, that doesn't indicate this is coming to end any time soon. Don't forget Putin will be aware of how the world see his army and I don't think the current situation is acceptable to him. He'll want a win, conclusively and he'll watch his army die trying. Unless the Ukrainians can mount serious counter offences and cut supply lines in several areas, rendering occupying units incapacitated Putin will leave them sitting in place until there is nothing left. As much as people think Russia only planned for a limited amount of time on this campaign they will still have considered attrition and the implications of this going on for a long time. It's up to the west and Ukraine to deter them from this path imo. What Russia will not have banked on and will be the deciding factor, will be civilians becoming very proficient soldiers and soldiers becoming warriors. Every day becoming tougher and more determined, larger in numbers. As the numbers of dead civilians grows, so does the spirit of the defenders. The Russians will need and astronomical number of troops to take that country considering the amount of Ukrainian soldiers they've created. This is Putins biggest fail. He's created a indefinite enemy not an ally 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 18, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 18, 2022 21 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I’ve seen pictures where they’ve used the caging to mount tree branches and things for camouflage. Idiots, should use Oasis blocks. Much less shrapnel to fly around when they take a hit as its much softer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 18, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 18, 2022 9 minutes ago, hippo said: Looks the ruskies have the BBC news feed on this topic ! Me not understand this post, can you explain please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 5 minutes ago, sidcow said: Idiots, should use Oasis blocks. Much less shrapnel to fly around when they take a hit as its much softer. Oasis blocks? I don't think they're flower arranging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 18, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: Oasis blocks? I don't think they're flower arranging 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 3 hours ago, hippo said: Sadly I think in due course Ukraine will be forced to accept something pretty close to the above. The concern for me (and no doubt Ukraine) is will Putin keep his side of the deal. I'm afraid you have to try. At the end of the day, and people forget this, hundreds of women, children and innocent men are dying. If you have to concede some territory, then so be it. And before you say it, I know, I know, he's a bully, he'll do it again etc. All that matters here, what really matters, is the lives of absolutely everyone involved. I'm afraid it might be best to give into the demands, swallow a bit of pride and just say, you can have this, as long as you don't do anything else. And if he does, then I'm afraid it would be all out war. But that isn't much different to what's happening now anyway. I just want people to stop getting killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 it's also worth noting that this has been an absolute disaster for Russia and I genuinely think Putin will want this to end soon. The sanctions will be an annoyance but the bigger issue is how weak his army looks and how much equipment they're losing (I suspect he doesn't really care about lives lost) All of Russia's power lies with this image of them being powerful. It was the same with the Soviet Union. Their army is being made to look very amateurish, disorganised and downright average tbh. This is what will be irking Putin most I feel. He'll be screwing that NATO can openly see the state of their army and how they fight wars and NATO knows, if it didn't before, that it would win a war with Russia fairly easily (nukes aside) if it ever came to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: I'm afraid you have to try. At the end of the day, and people forget this, hundreds of women, children and innocent men are dying. If you have to concede some territory, then so be it. And before you say it, I know, I know, he's a bully, he'll do it again etc. All that matters here, what really matters, is the lives of absolutely everyone involved. I'm afraid it might be best to give into the demands, swallow a bit of pride and just say, you can have this, as long as you don't do anything else. And if he does, then I'm afraid it would be all out war. But that isn't much different to what's happening now anyway. I just want people to stop getting killed. Zelensky has said his red line is giving away as much as an inch of Ukrainian soil. He’ll probably agree to denounce nazis, stay neutral and then join NATO once Putin is offed. Russian TV has cut Putin’s pre recorded propaganda event speech on Russian tv today so something is deffo going on. Edited March 18, 2022 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 1 minute ago, magnkarl said: Zelensky has said his red line is giving away as much as an inch of Ukrainian soil. He’ll probably agree to denounce nazis, stay neutral and then join NATO once Putin is offed. Russian TV has cut Putin’s pre recorded propaganda event speech on Russian tv today so something is deffo going on. Then that is silly from Zelensky I feel. Is that disputed land really worth what's going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Then that is silly from Zelensky I feel. Is that disputed land really worth what's going on? Was Stalingrad, Leningrad, Moscow, or The British Isles worth what went on in WW2 when the respective nations threw everything they had it defending it? I find it very silly to try to tell the Ukrainian people to give a war criminal land he illegally already controls because it’d stop some sort of suffering. If they do the suffering will be back every 8 years until there’s nothing left. This is what despots do. Ukrainians aren’t silly for defending their legally sovereign nation. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 18, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Then that is silly from Zelensky I feel. Is that disputed land really worth what's going on? If the world was as simple as that, there would be no war and land wouild just change hands freely every so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 Interesting threat from Lavrov. Any Russian strike into NATO territory triggers Article 5 and a very strong military response. We need to get serious about arming Ukraine properly now, the fascists in Moscow need to be stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LondonLax Posted March 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2022 41 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Then that is silly from Zelensky I feel. Is that disputed land really worth what's going on? It’s easy for you to say when it’s not your country you’re giving away. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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