Genie Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: This is just farcical. It did remind me a little bit of other short movies I’ve seen on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Ukraine hasn't been the shop window for the Russian arms industry that Putin was hoping it was going to be. The other members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, who he'd be hoping to arm, will surely be deeply unimpressed. China's ramping up arms spending, https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/china-defence-spending-rise-outpace-gdp-target-this-year-2022-03-05/, and Putin was probably banking on getting his hands on some of that wedge before China's own high tech arms industry gets up to speed? Had the invasion gone to plan you may well have seen Russia's next gen fighter platform over the pacified skies of Kiev? However, if Wiki is to be believed? They've only got a handful, more test aircraft than the finished article even. Lose one of those and it's another telling disaster. Sales and support of the Sukhoi 57 abroad would play a part in paying for Russia's own planes, and the further development of the front line fighter it was hoping to be using until 2050. 2 hours ago, blandy said: No, not in terms of pounds or dollars or Euros. Hundreds of millions, yes. Billions no. Chickenfeed compared to the Brexit Prime Minister's corrupt Covid spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 31 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: This is just fascism. FTFY. Russia always accuses others of that which it does or plans to do, itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 14, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, Xann said: Ukraine hasn't been the shop window for the Russian arms industry that Putin was hoping it was going to be. The other members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, who he'd be hoping to arm, will surely be deeply unimpressed. China's ramping up arms spending, https://www.reuters.com/markets/asia/china-defence-spending-rise-outpace-gdp-target-this-year-2022-03-05/, and Putin was probably banking on getting his hands on some of that wedge before China's own high tech arms industry gets up to speed? Had the invasion gone to plan you may well have seen Russia's next gen fighter platform over the pacified skies of Kiev? However, if Wiki is to be believed? They've only got a handful, more test aircraft than the finished article even. Lose one of those and it's another telling disaster. Sales and support of the Sukhoi 57 abroad would play a part in paying for Russia's own planes, and the further development of the front line fighter it was hoping to be using until 2050. Chickenfeed compared to the Brexit Prime Minister's corrupt Covid spend. You're right, it hasn't, and they won't have been. China's been ramping up its military for ages. Clearly as part of a plan to have more weight in its region and internationally, in addition to its economic leverage. In terms of Russia, and the effect of this war, its military is being both shown up as you say, and also depleted by losses while the economic impacts on Russia will only serve to make it much harder to replace and improve upon its capabilities. You also wonder about the effect on morale and confidence of the personnel, aside from the deaths and injuries they have suffered. It seems clear that their tanks, aircraft and equipment are significantly vulnerable to the tactics and equipment of the Ukraine forces, and that Russian tactics and force mix are mismatched with the war they are waging in terms of military gains. Though the vile tactic of destroying medical, food, water, power and so on facilities to target the civilian population are unfortunately always going to be repulsively effective, in the short term at least, though the resentment and hatred that causes will be counter-productive for decades. It's an utter clusterf**k, and whatever the economic price comparison with Brexit, I'd take Brexit every day over the country being savaged by an invading military commanded by a steroid pumped, paranoid power freak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 17 minutes ago, Xann said: Putin was probably banking on getting his hands on some of that wedge before China's own high tech arms industry gets up to speed? China’s high-tech arms industry is doing just fine, aided by astonishing levels of corporate espionage and theft of western technology. The big lessons China will be learning are how hard it is to fight a major combined arms war against determined and well supported state-level opposition, and the potential vulnerability of your financial system to western sanctions. The first point is harder to overcome but the second is something China will seek to address urgently, imo. The west has hopefully learned the importance of turning Taiwan into a military porcupine well in advance of hostilities, while China seeks to address its own deficiencies and resilience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, blandy said: I'd take Brexit every day over the country being savaged by an invading military commanded by a steroid pumped, paranoid power freak. It's not one or the other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: These guys aren’t exactly an impartial source. They’ve posted plenty of stuff that’s an outright fabrication (they claimed the ghost of Kyiv had shot down 49 planes) and quite a few other huge claims that were never evidenced - two massive transport planes full of paratroopers shot down in the early war, a spec ops raid destroying 30 helicopters about a week ago, etc. Take what they say with a pinch of salt until videos or photos proving it appear. I’m sure the Kiev independent has more credible sources for their reporting than the constant pessimistic outlook coming from yourself, tbh. Russia didn’t win in two days, Russia’s been severely hammered and stopped everywhere but Kherson. The George Galloways of the world are waking up to their sponsor being a bit shit at everything tbh. You should join the gang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: This is not very well informed, sorry. Firstly, China absolutely does have a trade surplus with Russia. Russia is not an incredibly rich country, but it does have a population of nearly 150 million people, it's no big surprise that most of everything they buy is made in China same as it is for everyone else. Secondly, Xi has taken over the party apparatus and is ending the recent tradition of two-five-year-terms-and-then-you're-out/first-among-equals style committee government of the last two decades, and simply assuming the power to carry on. He is far, far more powerful than Hu Jintao or Jiang Zemin, and any analysis based on continuity from pre-Xi times is mistaken. Percentage wise Russia doesn’t even account for a drop in the ocean of China’s total exports. If it comes to it Xi would chose the rich world any day of the week. Add the lack of buying power from western sanctions and Russia is essentially stuck trading in goods. Not cash. Edited March 14, 2022 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted March 14, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2022 32 minutes ago, Awol said: FTFY. Russia always accuses others of that which it does or plans to do, itself. Almost Trumpian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted March 14, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2022 23 minutes ago, Awol said: China’s high-tech arms industry is doing just fine, aided by astonishing levels of corporate espionage and theft of western technology. The big lessons China will be learning are how hard it is to fight a major combined arms war against determined and well supported state-level opposition, and the potential vulnerability of your financial system to western sanctions. The first point is harder to overcome but the second is something China will seek to address urgently, imo. The west has hopefully learned the importance of turning Taiwan into a military porcupine well in advance of hostilities, while China seeks to address its own deficiencies and resilience. I appreciate that China are a threat to Taiwan, but what we should not be doing at this stage is driving them toward a Russian axis by issuing threats. We need them to see that the west are not a threat to countries that want peaceful, economic growth, and that they can work with us going forward. Otherwise this shit is going to get out of hand, if it isn't already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Panto_Villan Posted March 14, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, magnkarl said: I’m sure the Kiev independent has more credible sources for their reporting than the constant pessimistic outlook coming from yourself, tbh. Russia didn’t win in two days, Russia’s been severely hammered and stopped everywhere but Kherson. The George Galloways of the world are waking up to their sponsor being a bit shit at everything tbh. You should join the gang. There's nothing pessimistic about sorting the Ukrainian propaganda from the independently verifiable information that Ukraine is doing well in the war. I'm actually pretty optimistic about the way the war is going but you're so hilariously keen to believe anything negative about Russia that you make me look pessimistic by comparison. Maybe try checking out some of these accounts, which as far as I can tell rely on verified facts to come to their opinions: @oryxspioenkop (who has collected actual verified evidence of over 1200 different Russian vehicles being destroyed vs about 300 for Ukraine) @UAWeapons @Osinttechnical @KofmanMichael Case in point: last night the mayor of Mykolaiv claimed a convoy of 200 Russian vehicles was destroyed on the outskirts of the city. Kiev Independent has already reported it true. Great victory if it actually happened, but everyone with a brain is still waiting to see photos of it before they celebrate - because it's not exactly going to be hard to spot 200 wrecked vehicles with a drone or a satellite, it is? But I guess that's just pessimism from a Russia fanboy as far as you're concerned, because why on earth would Ukraine want to inflate the damage they have supposedly inflicted on their enemies? Edited March 14, 2022 by Panto_Villan 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted March 14, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2022 24 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Percentage wise Russia doesn’t even account for a drop in the ocean of China’s total exports. If it comes to it Xi would chose the rich world any day of the week. Add the lack of buying power from western sanctions and Russia is essentially stuck trading in goods. Not cash. It’s not pessimism to suggest we shouldn’t accept as fact every kill video and every report of every lonely clueless soldier. If we believed everything positive we are told, we would have to question the strong assertion that Russia could only operate for 10 days. I think we’re all pretty much rooting for the same side. It’s just not the case that everyone is cheering every chart and league table suggesting Russia has been crippled and Putin’s about to be relieved of command. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 34 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: There's nothing pessimistic about sorting the Ukrainian propaganda from the independently verifiable information that Ukraine is doing well in the war. I'm actually pretty optimistic about the way the war is going but you're so hilariously keen to believe anything negative about Russia that you make me look pessimistic by comparison. Maybe try checking out some of these accounts, which as far as I can tell rely on verified facts to come to their opinions: @oryxspioenkop (who has collected actual verified evidence of over 1200 different Russian vehicles being destroyed vs about 300 for Ukraine) @UAWeapons @Osinttechnical @KofmanMichael Case in point: last night the mayor of Mykolaiv claimed a convoy of 200 Russian vehicles was destroyed on the outskirts of the city. Kiev Independent has already reported it true. Great victory if it actually happened, but everyone with a brain is still waiting to see photos of it before they celebrate - because it's not exactly going to be hard to spot 200 wrecked vehicles with a drone or a satellite, it is? But I guess that's just pessimism from a Russia fanboy as far as you're concerned, because why on earth would Ukraine want to inflate the damage they have supposedly inflicted on their enemies? I’ve used many of these sources myself, so I’m not sure who you’re aiming at here. Go back to the start of this conflict in this thread, and look at people suggesting Russia would steamroll Ukraine. It hasn’t happened. It’s not being overly optimistic to show credible sources (Kiev indie aside), a ton of these sources show that Russia is severely struggling almost everywhere. We might be rooting for the same side, but some people can’t help themselves talking Ukraine’s army down and bragging about Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted March 14, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 14, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 42 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: There's nothing pessimistic about sorting the Ukrainian propaganda from the independently verifiable information that Ukraine is doing well in the war. I'm actually pretty optimistic about the way the war is going but you're so hilariously keen to believe anything negative about Russia that you make me look pessimistic by comparison. Maybe try checking out some of these accounts, which as far as I can tell rely on verified facts to come to their opinions: @oryxspioenkop (who has collected actual verified evidence of over 1200 different Russian vehicles being destroyed vs about 300 for Ukraine) @UAWeapons @Osinttechnical @KofmanMichael Case in point: last night the mayor of Mykolaiv claimed a convoy of 200 Russian vehicles was destroyed on the outskirts of the city. Kiev Independent has already reported it true. Great victory if it actually happened, but everyone with a brain is still waiting to see photos of it before they celebrate - because it's not exactly going to be hard to spot 200 wrecked vehicles with a drone or a satellite, it is? But I guess that's just pessimism from a Russia fanboy as far as you're concerned, because why on earth would Ukraine want to inflate the damage they have supposedly inflicted on their enemies? Even @oryxspioenkop is a little problematic because the Ukrainians are much more keen to display their trophies over social media than the Russians are, who are still trying to downplay the whole thing. It seems like every time a Russian tank is hit a Ukrainian is keen to take a photo or video and upload it but the Russian soldiers are not really doing that as far as I can see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 It is inevitable that Russia will continue to slowly advance in Ukraine. The question is Putin mad enough to allow this to descend into a total bloodbath in taking street by street all of the main cities, with huge casualties on both sides and a ruined country. The answer is sadly probably yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bickster Posted March 14, 2022 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted March 14, 2022 24 minutes ago, choffer said: I'm now rooting for Russia 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 14 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: They are in the middle of a war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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