sidcow Posted March 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, avfc1982am said: Interesting that the Gremlin are now saying they've uncovered evidence of US assisting the Ukraine to create chemical and biological weapons. Surely if the US had been doing anything these would have been the first places to be destroyed as evidence cleaning. I don't buy it. I don't buy anything that the Russians say 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, avfc1982am said: Interesting that the Gremlin are now saying they've uncovered evidence of US assisting the Ukraine to create chemical and biological weapons. Surely if the US had been doing anything these would have been the first places to be destroyed as evidence cleaning. I don't buy it. "If they told you wolverines would make good house pets, would you believe them?" Del Griffith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, sidcow said: I don't buy anything that the Russians say I'm not sure I buy anything either side says. The sunk Russian warship? The dead Russian general? Nothing on the UK TV news last night about either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) The numbers, bar maybe the troops, seem fairly legit. I wonder how many operational tanks and personnel carriers Putin actually has at his disposal? It's turning into a hell of a lot of scrap metal to rebuild Ukraine with. Edited March 9, 2022 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2022 "According to the armed forces of Ukraine". Reminiscent of the daily kill claims of both sides in the Battle of Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, magnkarl said: The numbers, bar maybe the troops, seem fairly legit. I wonder how many operational tanks and personnel carriers Putin actually has at his disposal? It's turning into a hell of a lot of scrap metal to rebuild Ukraine with. According to Google, Russia has 12,400 tanks, 30,100 armoured vehicles and 6,600 artillery. So if that above graphic is correct, Russia has only lost 2% of their tanks, 3% of their armoured vehicles and 2% of their artillery. Basically they still have their whole army intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, mjmooney said: I'm not sure I buy anything either side says. The sunk Russian warship? The dead Russian general? Nothing on the UK TV news last night about either. X 4, so far. Editorial teams probably think it’s not the sort of tactical detail the great British public really want. There was phot/video of a ship burning off Odessa but not close up, so sinking claims can’t be confirmed (AFAIK). I’m with you that loss rates will be exaggerated / understated to suit the claimant, but on balance the Russians are trading v significant volumes of equipment and men for some farmland, bypassed towns and the odd strategically significant bit of infrastructure (nuclear power station, for example). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2022 15 minutes ago, mjmooney said: I'm not sure I buy anything either side says. The sunk Russian warship? The dead Russian general? Nothing on the UK TV news last night about either. Both confirmed by independent sources now The UK TV News is reporting this in a really different way to online sources. Places like Bellingcat are verifying a lot of the claims, in fact they were the ones that verified the General one (see up thread for how it was discovered) If you only get the news from BBC / ITV etc you'd think Russian forces have the upper hand, it really isn't the case. They aren't reporting it very well at all 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Awol said: I’m with you that loss rates will be exaggerated / understated to suit the claimant, but on balance the Russians are trading v significant volumes of equipment and men for some farmland, bypassed towns and the odd strategically significant bit of infrastructure (nuclear power station, for example). Though from a Russian viewpoint, they might be thinking they've only lost 2% of their equipment and a few thousand kids that they don't give shit about for 10% of Ukraine's territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted March 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2022 Just now, bickster said: If you only get the news from BBC / ITV etc you'd think Russian forces have the upper hand, it really isn't the case. They aren't reporting it very well at all I wonder why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 55 minutes ago, bickster said: McDonalds, no matter what we think of them here, is massively symbolic of the opening up of Russia to the freedoms of the west When McDs opened their first branch in Moscow it made headlines all around the world, it was on the evening news in the UK. It really is up there with Levi jeans which were used as blackmarket currency during the Soviet years. Both of those brands pulling out of Russia is more than just an economic message. It's hugely symbolic, it's telling the Russian people, you are going back to the dark days, days an awful lot of them have never experienced OT - there is an episode in the New Statesman written about that time where Alan B'Stard gets sent to a Siberian Gulag and joins a queue for a McDonalds that is due to open in about 3 years time , commentary on just how big an event that McDonalds in Russia was at the time 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2022 27 minutes ago, mjmooney said: I'm not sure I buy anything either side says. The sunk Russian warship? The dead Russian general? Nothing on the UK TV news last night about either. Well yes, there is propaganda on both sides for sure. But on a sliding scale of 100 to zero in believability Russia is on a zero so big and fat Barry Austin would feel sorry for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, ender4 said: Though from a Russian viewpoint, they might be thinking they've only lost 2% of their equipment and a few thousand kids that they don't give shit about for 10% of Ukraine's territory. Land doesn’t fight, people do. To ‘win’ they need to defeat the Ukrainian armed forces and the insurgency that would follow Russian occupation. The more land they occupy, the more dispersed their combat forces are, the longer and more exposed their lines of communication become, the more vulnerable they are to Ukrainian action. Also, they are losing their ‘good’ kit at an unsustainable rate. Those big numbers of tanks and APCs are because the Russians never throw anything away. The 1000’s of T-55s they have in storage are mobile coffins, if they could even be made roadworthy and conscripts trained to use them. Russia’s true strength is in the massed fires of its artillery, but if their enemy won’t obediently line up together to be exterminated then it’s not much use. That’s why Russia has turned in the Ukrainian people instead, it’s a target they can kill. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Awol said: Also, they are losing their ‘good’ kit at an unsustainable rate. Those big numbers of tanks and APCs are because the Russians never throw anything away. The 1000’s of T-55s they have in storage are mobile coffins, if they could even be made roadworthy and conscripts trained to use them. from my trips to the Tank Museum with the boy when he was younger , the Uk tanks seem to have Trophy APS fitted along with upgraded armour , the Israelis first had these on their Merkava tanks and it stood the test of live fire situations , hence the Uk decision to upgrade From what I can see online , it appears the vast majority of Russian tanks don't have such a thing , hence the apparent ease with which they can be destroyed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 43 minutes ago, ender4 said: According to Google, Russia has 12,400 tanks, 30,100 armoured vehicles and 6,600 artillery. So if that above graphic is correct, Russia has only lost 2% of their tanks, 3% of their armoured vehicles and 2% of their artillery. Basically they still have their whole army intact. The figures you quote include obsolete Soviet tanks, storage and so on. Hence I said “operational”. At the moment Russia is shipping ladas from 1972 as personnel transports, so I very much doubt the official peopaganda figures from Google. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted March 9, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 9, 2022 13 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: The size of the stones on Ukrainians. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 9, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2022 47 minutes ago, ender4 said: According to Google, Russia has 12,400 tanks, 30,100 armoured vehicles and 6,600 artillery. Russias entire standing ground army is 280,000. Between 150 - 200,000 have been thrown at Ukraine already. They could have 50,000 tanks in reserve, they still wouldn't have the manpower to drive them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ender4 said: Probably while playing worm on their amazing Nokias from 1998 because their coms don’t work.. Edited March 9, 2022 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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