Awol Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Just now, Zatman said: The sanctions from Russia just got even worse for them. Carlsberg aren't listening and are keeping the factories open in Russia At least they’ll still have something to put on their cornflakes when the cows are all dead. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted March 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, sidcow said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60532634 He's getting worried I think Hope so, but everything he has said so far has been almost the polar opposite to reality, so it's hard as a pessimist not to see this as a tacit admission that he plans to attack Poland. I reeeeeaaalllyy hope you are right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted March 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2022 Just now, Awol said: At least they’ll still have something to put on their cornflakes when the cows are all dead. Isn't the wheat they would need to make cornflakes grown in the Ukraine? Gravel. They will eat gravel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, HKP90 said: My concern with all of this is that we (as the west) are painted as aggressors in the eyes of Russians who cannot see what is actually going on because of media control. Are we not just enabling Putin to position himself as 'protector of Russia against the whole world who is against us', a bit like they do in North Korea? I don't have an answer to the problem. It's just an observation. Honestly I don't see an 'off-ramp' to this conflict, as the Americans would say. I really don’t think his tactic of hiding the truth from the masses in Russia works in 2022. Many/most will be able to access the www and see the other side of the argument and realise they are being suppressed and lied to. It’s the fear of beatings and imprisonments that are keeping them under his control, not that they believe what they are being told on state controlled TV. As soon as they get a hint he’s losing his grip the Russian people will turn very quickly imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 4, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Awol said: At least they’ll still have something to put on their cornflakes when the cows are all dead. I've eaten a Soviet era breakfast in a Leningrad flat. It involved vodka instead of milk. Carlsberg is still the healthy option 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Isn't the wheat they would need to make cornflakes grown in the Ukraine? Gravel. They will eat gravel. Half a handful of freezing cold gravel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Just now, HKP90 said: Isn't the wheat they would need to make cornflakes grown in the Ukraine? Really serious point here. I was watching something last night on the economic effect of the war, which noted that the Middle East and a North Africa import nearly all of their wheat for flour from Ukraine. Those exports have now ceased, so a 2nd order effect of the invasion could be massive food inflation / bread riots in a pretty volatile part of the world. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Isn't the wheat they would need to make cornflakes grown in the Ukraine? Gravel. They will eat gravel. Maize not wheat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Half a handful of freezing cold gravel Freezing cold Gravel? They were lucky. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted March 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Half a handful of freezing cold gravel ...and pay mill owner for permission to come to work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, HKP90 said: Isn't the wheat they would need to make cornflakes grown in the Ukraine? Gravel. They will eat gravel. Some of the cornflakes might be made from corn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted March 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 minute ago, Mr_Dogg said: Maize not wheat! Same point, different cereal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) Some outcomes of this war from the BBC link @sidcow posted: Amid the fog of war, it can be hard to see the way forward. Here are some potential outcomes. Most are bleak. 1. Short war Russia ramps up its military operations with devastating attacks. Thousands die, Kyiv falls, Ukraine's president is killed or flees, and Russia installs a pro-Moscow puppet regime. This would be an unstable outcome, vulnerable to insurgency and future conflict. 2. Long war Perhaps more likely. Maybe Russian forces get bogged down, with low morale and poor logistics. They may struggle to control even captured cities. Over time, Ukraine's forces become an effective insurgency, while the West continues to supply weapons. Perhaps after many years, Russia eventually leaves. 3. European war Putin could send troops into ex-Soviet republics like Moldova and Georgia, that are not part of Nato. Or there could just be miscalculation and escalation. Putin might take a risk if he felt it was the only way to save his leadership - if he faced defeat, he might be tempted to escalate further. 4. Diplomatic solution By already agreeing to talks - even if they haven't made much progress - Putin seems to at least have accepted the possibility of a negotiated ceasefire. If the war goes badly for him, Putin may judge that continuing is a greater leadership threat than the humiliation of ending it. 5. Putin ousted It might seem unthinkable. Yet the world has changed in recent days. If the war is disastrous for Russia, there may be the threat of popular revolution. And if those who have benefited from Putin no longer think he can defend their interests, such an outcome may not be implausible. Edited March 4, 2022 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted March 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2022 Look it's been a long week guys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post a-k Posted March 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2022 9 minutes ago, bickster said: I've eaten a Soviet era breakfast in a Leningrad flat. It involved vodka instead of milk. Carlsberg is still the healthy option That's nothing 2 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 28 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: You don't think there are innocent Russian civilians, who have nothing to do with the war, who are and will suffer as well? Although I've realised the narrative is that, to show our humanity, and how much we care about the people in Ukraine, is also to show how little we care about average people in Russia. Brilliant! They've been blanket dehumanised in the court of public opinion. It's always " us Vs them " ... whenever I see this whipped up Mobb mentality, it makes me realise as a human race, we haven't evolved much at all. If there are Russians who wanted to donate to their OWN people who might be suffering via war and sanctions, as much as some hate it, it should be their perogative. In the grand scheme of things, Oligarch money is a drop in the bucket, of what is costs to be at war. You start just deciding who's assets can get stripped, you are on a slippery slope. This leaves the door open for governments then being able to indiscriminately do this to anyone. Look, I'm trying to be nice here but I find this post delusional and just virtue signalling. Wonderful thoughts but obsolete in times of conflict. Russia started this advance on the Ukraine. Thousands of Ukrainians are losing their lives and it could get much worse. What does this mean...enslavement for millions under a egotistical idiot! No democracy, no choice, no future. And you want to extend the olive branch, let the wealthy continue to invest in Russia and prop up Putins war machine. I've got news for you...Putin doesn't give a shit about normal Russians and will use them as his own human shield the longer this goes on. Strangulation of the economy and population of Russia is the only way to help those 40+ million people that will fall under his thumb and the viciousness that comes with it. Last thing....Your seriously delusional if you don't think Governments around the world wont strip everyone's assets if they need to. Nothing we own will be worth shit. Especially in times of war. So the longer this goes on the more chance there is we all suffer great hardships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 51 minutes ago, nick76 said: Great we have basically given Ukrainians more knives in a gun fight. I don’t know what the answer is but all we seem to be doing is delaying the inevitable rather than stopping/intervening or pushing back. We know what Putins goal is, what is our goal. The Wests goal now will be to watch Putin army get destroyed, decimated and bogged down in the Ukraine. Western leaders will see this as an opportunity. Normal Russians will not want to invade anywhere, they lead lives now similar to the west in a material sense. Therefore, Putin is going to have a hard sell finding motivated conscripts for his army. He's also going to stretch his forces so wide he'll never have stability in his region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 hour ago, nick76 said: I don’t know what the answer is but all we seem to be doing is delaying the inevitable rather than stopping/intervening or pushing back. We know what Putins goal is, what is our goal. I would think ensuring we don't do something that leads to extinction of all life on earth would be a pretty primary goal in all our planning. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted March 4, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 4, 2022 28 minutes ago, Genie said: I really don’t think his tactic of hiding the truth from the masses in Russia works in 2022. Many/most will be able to access the www and see the other side of the argument and realise they are being suppressed and lied to. It’s the fear of beatings and imprisonments that are keeping them under his control, not that they believe what they are being told on state controlled TV. As soon as they get a hint he’s losing his grip the Russian people will turn very quickly imo. And yet.... The 25-year-old has been speaking regularly to her mother, who lives in Moscow. But in these conversations, and even after sending videos from her heavily bombarded hometown, Oleksandra is unable to convince her mother about the danger she is in. "I didn't want to scare my parents, but I started telling them directly that civilians and children are dying," she says. "But even though they worry about me, they still say it probably happens only by accident, that the Russian army would never target civilians. That it's Ukrainians who're killing their own people." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60600487 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 4, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 4, 2022 Another point here about the suffering of the Russian people, it can't really be said out loud but the sanctions have to hurt them as that is what will motivate a plebiscite and by now the people know why there are sanctions and they know the cause of that. It's not nice but it's what they need to do for themselvesd 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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