Awol Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, villakram said: Russia claim proof that attack was done by another countries security services. Obvious fake news... right? Lavrov alluded to foreign security service being involved, his Russian military counterpart came right out and said it was the UK - in collusion with the White Helmets. Should be meme heaven on twitter shortly! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I don't really understand Russia's play on this. First they say there was no attack and now they say it was the UK working with the White Helmets. Surely it would have been much more credible to push Petems angle that it was a 3rd party terrorist group looking to trick the west into joining the war, and then stick to that one story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I don't really understand Russia's play on this. First they say there was no attack and now they say it was the UK working with the White Helmets. Surely it would have been much more credible to push Petems angle that it was a 3rd party terrorist group looking to trick the west into joining the war, and then stick to that one story? You'd think so, but Russia has pursued a policy of misinformation in recent years, where they just throw out every dissenting view possible to keep things off balance in the target nation. Their social media platform has become the epitome of it. It doesn't matter that it makes it clear they're doing this, seemingly. They just want those stories out there. They want the doubt. It's why they're the best thing to happen to bacofoil. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I suppose you could say they are exploiting this phenomenon of the social media age where every individuals voice and each person's opinion seemingly carries equal weight, rather than there being one acknowledged set of facts or source of 'truth'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Can I get a “lol” please.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Our government are totally capable of lying to us on important domestic issues, they do it all the time. However to fabricate a chemical weapons attack in a foreign state and attempt to frame Russia in the farsical nature described in AWOLs post is fantastical. I'm sure they're are many Russian citizens out that believe that version of events to be true. Honestly, that blows my mind. Which begs the question, what can we actually do to truly deal with the gangster in the Kremlin? Or at least to minimise his ambitions to maintaining control of just Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 2 hours ago, PompeyVillan said: Which begs the question, what can we actually do to truly deal with the gangster in the Kremlin? Or at least to minimise his ambitions to maintaining control of just Russia. The same thing you do with a bully in any walk of life, face him down. Strength wise Russia is not the Soviet Union and Putin has bluffed his way to this point through threats, belligerence and a lack of western leadership and willpower to effectively oppose him. He also knows that the West is vastly more powerful in economic and military terms, if push came to shove. The allies collectively have to take a stand here, consider Russian aggression in the aggregate and say ‘no more’. Putin's no fool and will take any face saving off ramp given to him if he believes we are serious, but it’s essential to force his hand (IMO) for longer-term European security. If not, we’ll very likely face another challenge later that’s closer to home & can’t be ignored. It’s risky but that’s life. We faced off many times during the Cold War & Putin no more wants nuclear escalation than we do. He won’t risk mother Russia over Syria, particularly if we are clear that any action isn’t about removing Assad, but solely to punish his CW use. Thats not a popular view (putting it mildly) but I don’t see any better options at this point. Both Putin & Assad have pushed things too far. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Moot point, it’s started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 14, 2018 Author Share Posted April 14, 2018 Commencing WW3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Just now, maqroll said: Commencing WW3 Not sure if you are serious, but I don't believe it will commence WW3. After all of Russia's bravado, it will be interesting to see what (if any) military defence of Syria, Russia provide and how effective it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 14, 2018 Author Share Posted April 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, brommy said: Not sure if you are serious, but I don't believe it will commence WW3. After all of Russia's bravado, it will be interesting to see what (if any) military defence of Syria, Russia provide and how effective it is. I'm half serious. The area is a complete tinderbox and we just lit a match. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Just now, maqroll said: I'm half serious. The area is a complete tinderbox and we just lit a match. Knowing what the response would be, Assad lit the match last Saturday. He had notice of such last year. I think you will be surprised at how far this current response does not spread, at least in the military sense of approaching something anywhere near a WW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 UK Tornado aircraft carrying Storm Shadow cruise missiles targeted a combined production and storage site for Sarin gas and precursor chemicals. Operation is complete, no loses and Russian air defences did not engage coalition aircraft. It looks like its over for now unless Assad uses chemical weapons again. Clearly the US and Russia struck a deal. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 The U.S. has just stated that, provided Assad does not use chemical weapons again, this military operation is now complete. The targets were restricted to a chemical/biological weapons manufacturing/development site and two chemical weapons storage sites. It doesn't smack of regime change at this time, so hopefully Russia will resist their temptation to heighten the issue beyond the war of words and restricted diplomacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Awol said: Clearly the US and Russia struck a deal. They have known for ages . Akrotiri has been on notice for quite a while. Edited April 14, 2018 by Brumerican 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, brommy said: The U.S. has just stated that, provided Assad does not use chemical weapons again, this military operation is now complete. Back here in 12 months, then? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 14, 2018 Author Share Posted April 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, Awol said: UK Tornado aircraft carrying Storm Shadow cruise missiles targeted a combined production and storage site for Sarin gas and precursor chemicals. Operation is complete, no loses and Russian air defences did not engage coalition aircraft. It looks like its over for now unless Assad uses chemical weapons again. Clearly the US and Russia struck a deal. Gen. Dunford says US did not coordinate with Russia other to tell them what air space they'd be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, maqroll said: Gen. Dunford says US did not coordinate with Russia other to tell them what air space they'd be in. Trump does it it in the open that's why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 4 hours ago, maqroll said: Gen. Dunford says US did not coordinate with Russia other to tell them what air space they'd be in. The no-show of Russia’s vaunted air-defence network means one of two things: it failed completely (no way), or an agreement was reached (way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Whilst no one really wants open war with Russia, the country that wants it least is Russia. I'm no military expert but my understanding is that Russia's kit isn't up to scratch. They wouldn't want a proper scrap with a developed nation, let alone the US, it would end in humiliating defeat. Personally I think this is less about chemical weapons and as much about a show of force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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