Eastie Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, TRO said: well if they don't finish 1st that could be argued Indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted February 27, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) Not really the place so apologies, but as it’s been discussed in this thread before, apparently the Norwich game has been rearranged to 12:30pm on 7th April, it’s no longer 5:30pm. Edit - already amended in the match thread. Edited February 27, 2018 by Shropshire Lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said: Not really the place so apologies, but as it’s been discussed in this thread before, apparently the Norwich game has been rearranged to 12:30pm on 7th April, it’s no longer 5:30pm. Edit - already amended in the match thread. Shame for those who’d already changed plans once - it’s to accommodate the Manchester Derby at 5-30 which possibly will be off anyway if utd beat Brighton in the cup . Edited February 27, 2018 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonst83 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, terrytini said: In my view it’s misguided and unfair to say Bruce “won’t believe we can beat Wolves”. I think he is a cautious Manager, and I think it’s cost us at times, ( of course the opposite may be true !!) but he isn’t cautious because he doesn’t think we can win, he’s cautious when he is because he thinks it’s his best chance of winning. Filham do indeed play a different way to us. At the moment however, our way ( Bruce’s way) is the more successful. And we aren’t only in the hunt for second. As a matter of opinion, yes, as a statement of fact, no. And seeing as how footballs great attraction is it’s unpredictability I for one will wait and see. I’ve seen many many many more extraordinary things in football than a side letting a 10 point lead with 36 points to play for slip up. Absolutely fair enough. The views I stated in my post were my opinion and I wasn't ever speaking as a matter of fact. I wrapped up my post with "in my opinion" and should've, in hindsight, perhaps been clearer about that. But yes, you're probably right, Bruce is more cautious than he is convinced that we can't beat Wolves, that's absolutely fair. I guess I was just trying to put across my view, and it is my view, that Bruce's caution holds us back in games. But he has shown that a cautious and negative approach to his line up can also, and has also, got results. I do believe we're only realistically in the hunt for second at best. Yes bizarre things happen in football, but I never said that was a fact and expected it to be understood that, as we're on a fan's forum, it could be assumed that I was speaking subjectively. But I could've been clearer. Edited February 27, 2018 by roonst83 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I love this thread. Win a game and it's I reckon we can do the dingles. Lose a game and it's we will be lucky to stay up this season. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 56 minutes ago, omariqy said: I love this thread. Win a game and it's I reckon we can do the dingles. Lose a game and it's we will be lucky to stay up this season. Always a stronger argument.....talking from strength. Edited February 28, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just because I think there is some relevance to it at this point in the season, whereby teams are now close to their final positions, I have tallied up the final 12 games of the season for the top 6 to see who has the 'easiest' run in. Obviously I recognise there is no weighting given in relation to league position and things like derbies or form or fighting for survival which may effect things but it still gives a nice unbiased look at each teams run in. If you play a team in 1st position you get 1pt, a team at the bottom earns you 24pts. Therefore the bigger the number the easier your fixtures. Wolves 171pts Cardiff 157pts VILLA 154pts Derby 146pts Fulham 163pts Sheffield Utd 147pts So Wolves and, worryingly, Fulham have the easiest run in. Villa and Cardiff practically the same with Derby and Sheffield Utds on the trickier end of the scale. This is of limited use in real world situations but I do think it gives a bit of a picture of what each team has coming up. I think it also shows that Wolves are not only nicely clear of the pack but also with a nice run of fixtures left to play. Villa probably only need to concern themselves with Fulham and Cardiff at this stage. The Cardiff game will likely define our season. Personally I see Fulham and Wolves grabbing the top two spots, with Villa and Cardiff fighting for third, Derby comfortably in playoffs and Sheffield utd probably being pipped to the post by one of the chasing pack (money on Boro). Going to be interesting... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 13 hours ago, roonst83 said: I guess I was just trying to put across my view, and it is my view, that Bruce's caution holds us back in games. But he has shown that a cautious and negative approach to his line up can also, and has also, got results. In a few recent games, we've started in a typical, cautious Bruce style and formation, only to go behind and for Bruce to make some attacking changes which has lead to us getting a point or more. (Preston and Sheffield Wednesday being two examples that come to mind). As much as I respect Bruce's decisions and his knack of getting a team over the finish line, I hope he takes notice of the ways that we've picked up some of our points lately. I think we're a better team than one that needs to be constantly cautious in our approach. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted February 28, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2018 10 hours ago, jackbauer24 said: Just because I think there is some relevance to it at this point in the season, whereby teams are now close to their final positions, I have tallied up the final 12 games of the season for the top 6 to see who has the 'easiest' run in. Obviously I recognise there is no weighting given in relation to league position and things like derbies or form or fighting for survival which may effect things but it still gives a nice unbiased look at each teams run in. If you play a team in 1st position you get 1pt, a team at the bottom earns you 24pts. Therefore the bigger the number the easier your fixtures. Wolves 171pts Cardiff 157pts VILLA 154pts Derby 146pts Fulham 163pts Sheffield Utd 147pts So Wolves and, worryingly, Fulham have the easiest run in. Villa and Cardiff practically the same with Derby and Sheffield Utds on the trickier end of the scale. This is of limited use in real world situations but I do think it gives a bit of a picture of what each team has coming up. I think it also shows that Wolves are not only nicely clear of the pack but also with a nice run of fixtures left to play. Villa probably only need to concern themselves with Fulham and Cardiff at this stage. The Cardiff game will likely define our season. Personally I see Fulham and Wolves grabbing the top two spots, with Villa and Cardiff fighting for third, Derby comfortably in playoffs and Sheffield utd probably being pipped to the post by one of the chasing pack (money on Boro). Going to be interesting... I thought this was going to be another predicting the results based on the whole season and everybody winning every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonst83 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Rob182 said: In a few recent games, we've started in a typical, cautious Bruce style and formation, only to go behind and for Bruce to make some attacking changes which has lead to us getting a point or more. (Preston and Sheffield Wednesday being two examples that come to mind). As much as I respect Bruce's decisions and his knack of getting a team over the finish line, I hope he takes notice of the ways that we've picked up some of our points lately. I think we're a better team than one that needs to be constantly cautious in our approach. Agree. The Preston game was case in point. Bruce is a reactive manager more so than a pro-active manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 22 hours ago, terrytini said: I must admit to being perplexed at the extent of the doubts being expressed. We need to finish in the top 2. We are currently not in the top 2. Thats all it boils down to in the end. The minute we go into second we are optimistic, any moment we are not in second we are pessimistic. Its as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carewjust4u Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 13 hours ago, jackbauer24 said: Just because I think there is some relevance to it at this point in the season, whereby teams are now close to their final positions, I have tallied up the final 12 games of the season for the top 6 to see who has the 'easiest' run in. Obviously I recognise there is no weighting given in relation to league position and things like derbies or form or fighting for survival which may effect things but it still gives a nice unbiased look at each teams run in. If you play a team in 1st position you get 1pt, a team at the bottom earns you 24pts. Therefore the bigger the number the easier your fixtures. Wolves 171pts Cardiff 157pts VILLA 154pts Derby 146pts Fulham 163pts Sheffield Utd 147pts So Wolves and, worryingly, Fulham have the easiest run in. Villa and Cardiff practically the same with Derby and Sheffield Utds on the trickier end of the scale. This is of limited use in real world situations but I do think it gives a bit of a picture of what each team has coming up. I think it also shows that Wolves are not only nicely clear of the pack but also with a nice run of fixtures left to play. Villa probably only need to concern themselves with Fulham and Cardiff at this stage. The Cardiff game will likely define our season. Personally I see Fulham and Wolves grabbing the top two spots, with Villa and Cardiff fighting for third, Derby comfortably in playoffs and Sheffield utd probably being pipped to the post by one of the chasing pack (money on Boro). Going to be interesting... Really interesting, and i do agree with your predictions place/standing wise come the season end. However, does your system factor in playing home/away? I think that factor plays a crucial part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, Stevomanila said: I hope we can too but for sure 2nd is up grabs...on that note of promotion and apologies if this is already a separate thread (I did look and couldn't find one) but how many of the current squad, if we get promoted, would you keep and how many would you think we need to replace?... Assuming Terry leaves and we secure some of the loans as permanent..would it realistically be far off this?...I cannot work out if I am being too harsh or too generous but Bruce or whoever the manager will be could have quite the job on their hands to build a prem squad capable of staying in the division... Johnstone? Elmo? Chester ? ? Snodgrass Hourihane? ? Adomah Grealish Hogan? Squad Players? Hopefully good enough..Davis, RHM, Green, O Hare, Sulliman, Taylor, Grabban Maybe? Steer? Jedinak? Hutton? Part of me thinks this would be a half-decent lower-half team. But also, I'm wondering whether we are underestimating how much a team of Championship players could struggle in the Prem. When you consider that Grabban is looking like one of our better strikers right now, and he couldn't even get in the Bournemouth team, I wonder whether we're going to need to just keep our 3/4 best players in the team, and then buy a whole new spine. Johnstone, Chester, Snodgrass & Kodjia, then a mainly new squad around them? EDIT: And Grealish, of course. Edited February 28, 2018 by Rob182 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 42 minutes ago, carewjust4u said: Really interesting, and i do agree with your predictions place/standing wise come the season end. However, does your system factor in playing home/away? I think that factor plays a crucial part. Good point. Also you have to consider that the top 10 is so tight that the positions will change week in week out which would alter the ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, roonst83 said: Agree. The Preston game was case in point. Bruce is a reactive manager more so than a pro-active manager. I think that is a moot point. If the team is winning he is a proactive manager.....If the team is not winning he is a reactive manager.....I think many managers could be described in the same manner. If you are saying he is a reactive manager all of the time, which I guess you are not.....then i would have to disagree. many, many factors are at play, when games are being played and I fear that not enough comment is made on players form, just not being good enough on the day, its what is generally referred to as consistency in a player. Manangers have only so much control over this and have to compensate or change players, when they see an obvious scenario.....if too many are affected a way of playing to get a result may have to be adopted. its rarely one single dimensional factor.....unless a player blatantly gives away a goal or a monumental error like JED against Sheff Utd....that can change your game plan. I do honestly think Managers are the main catalyst in a football clubs ability to be successful or fail......but I am very dubious during a game of the AMOUNT of effect a manager can have. He has one chance half time, the rest is mainly hot air, arm waving ( in some cases) and changes. Edited February 28, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, TRO said: I think that is a moot point. If the team is winning he is a proactive manager.....If the team is not winning he is a reactive manager.....I think many managers could be described in the same manner. If you are saying he is a reactive manager all of the time, which I guess you are not.....then i would have to disagree. many, many factors are at play, when games are being played and I fear that not enough comment is made on players form, just not being good enough on the day, its what is generally referred to as consistency in a player. Manangers have only so much control over this and have to compensate or change players, when they see an obvious scenario.....if too many are affected a way of playing to get a result may have to be adopted. its rarely one single dimensional factor.....unless a player blatantly gives away a goal or a monumental error like JED against Sheff Utd....that can change your game plan. I do honestly think Managers are the main catalyst in a football clubs ability to be successful or fail......but I am very dubious during a game of the AMOUNT of effect a manager can have. He has one chance half time, the rest is mainly hot air, arm waving ( in some cases) and changes. Picking teams and setting them up to attack from the outset is being proactive. It’s not just about in game management. In a lot of games it’s let’s keep it tight and see how we go but we are far better on the front foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted February 28, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2018 20 minutes ago, dn1982 said: Picking teams and setting them up to attack from the outset is being proactive. It’s not just about in game management. In a lot of games it’s let’s keep it tight and see how we go but we are far better on the front foot. I think you are getting confused about the definition of 'pro-active'! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 hours ago, roonst83 said: Agree. The Preston game was case in point. Bruce is a reactive manager more so than a pro-active manager. IMO it’s not whether he’s proactive or reactive. He has a way of playing. It is worked on week in and week out. It’s his way. To some it is over cautious, to others it is failing to exploit our strengths, to others it is pragmatic and proven successful. All Managers have their own way, all are Proactive, all are Reactive. For myself I thought last year his caution cost us points ( although of course it may have gained them, as was his intention). And this year I thought his approach would prevent us doing as well as I thought we could with the players we had......but we are right in the hunt and he has proved his methods still work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted February 28, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 28, 2018 17 hours ago, omariqy said: I love this thread. Win a game and it's I reckon we can do the dingles. Lose a game and it's we will be lucky to stay up this season. Always one loss away from crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I don't know who is in charge of our PR but bloody hell never seen it so good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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