Aston Villa History Thread

[Xela]

One of the best, if not the best, atmospheres at Villa Park. Especially the second half. 

Lee Hendrie was immense

 

[Follyfoot]

3 hours ago, Xela said:

One of the best, if not the best, atmospheres at Villa Park. Especially the second half. 

Lee Hendrie was immense

 

If only that chance at the end 

[The Fun Factory]

On 17/07/2022 at 09:35, VillaJ100 said:

Despite the geographic proximity, didn't arsenal pull some dodgy shit to get in the top league at the expense of spurs? Thinking when the leagues restarted after WW1? 

Don't go on this thread very often so apologies for a very late reply. Arsenal were promoted ahead of Spurs after WW1. The first division was being expanded and Arsenal were picked ahead of Spurs even though they finished 5th in the second division and Spurs had finished last in the first division in 1915. The allegation is that the then owner, Henry Norris, bribed the league for this to happen but there is  no hard evidence for that. Norris also moved Arsenal from Woolwich to Highbury so Spurs see themselves as the original north London club. Arsenal have not been relegated since.

Edited December 17, 2022 by The Fun Factory

[sheepyvillian]

On 15/12/2022 at 13:47, Follyfoot said:

If only that chance at the end 

Another great European night. When we beat a full of top players Inter Milan 2 - 0 at Villa park. That Kent Nielsen screamer and the telepathic duo of Cowans and Platt. 

Remember the second leg when the ball went over the touch- line before the cross that assisted their first goal? 

[Follyfoot]

36 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Another great European night. When we beat a full of top players Inter Milan 2 - 0 at Villa park. That Kent Nielsen screamer and the telepathic duo of Cowans and Platt. 

Remember the second leg when the ball went over the touch- line before the cross that assisted their first goal? 

Yeah, I do remember that goal and especially the big flob of phlegm. It was foggy for the second leg if I recall at the San Siri and yes we got robbed 

another good one is when we came from two nil down to 2-2 in the last five minutes against Barcelona in 1979

[sheepyvillian]

6 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Yeah, I do remember that goal and especially the big flob of phlegm. It was foggy for the second leg if I recall at the San Siri and yes we got robbed 

another good one is when we came from two nil down to 2-2 in the last five minutes against Barcelona in 1979

I was there for the Barcelona game, Ken McNaught double. I vividly remember queuing for the no11 after the game and everyone extolling the skills of Johan Cruyff . So glad I had the privilege of seeing him in the flesh, what a player. Definitely in the top 5 of all time, imo.

[Follyfoot]

Yes, I attended that one as well. I think there’s nearly 50,000 in the ground 49,000 and something. I think we had Pele and Cruyff play at Villa Park in the same decade.

[sheepyvillian]

Another one that is well deserving of mention, the Super Cup also against Barca. What a bunch of dirty, cheating bastards they were. Mark Walters getting spat in his boat race. I was in the Witton Lane with Victor, mixed race lad from Newtown. I think I remember you saying that, if it's the same lad, he sits by you at Villa Park. Good lad, we hung around the town together too.

[Follyfoot]

1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said:

Another one that is well deserving of mention, the Super Cup also against Barca. What a bunch of dirty, cheating bastards they were. Mark Walters getting spat in his boat race. I was in the Witton Lane with Victor, mixed race lad from Newtown. I think I remember you saying that, if it's the same lad, he sits by you at Villa Park. Good lad, we hung around the town together too.

Yes got to be the same one as not many Victors over the past 30 odd years who fit the criteria if you know what I mean. I think the keeper kicked Sid up the arse after the penalty in that game as well.

[sheepyvillian]

26 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Yes got to be the same one as not many Victors over the past 30 odd years who fit the criteria if you know what I mean. I think the keeper kicked Sid up the arse after the penalty in that game as well.

If I could choose which Villa player throughout our history I would most like to have watched in the flesh it would have to be the Great Pongo.

[Follyfoot]

6 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

If I could choose which Villa player throughout our history I would most like to have watched in the flesh it would have to be the Great Pongo.

We are very fortunate to have witnessed the likes of Sid Brian, Sid and God In the flesh. It would’ve been fantastic to watch the season. Pongo went mental in front of goal, but for me, it would have to be Billy Walker, one club and England legend 

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, Follyfoot said:

We are very fortunate to have witnessed the likes of Sid Brian, Sid and God In the flesh. It would’ve been fantastic to watch the season. Pongo went mental in front of goal, but for me, it would have to be Billy Walker, one club and England legend 

I remember Walker's widow coming on to the pitch to present Charlie Aitkin with a plaque for having made the most appearances for us. Am I right in thinking Charlie only played for the Villa?

[Marka Ragnos]

Here's a pretty interesting pre-Villa cricket news report that I dug up (I like trawl through old newspapers) from the Birmingham Daily Mail edition of 24 July 1873. Why interesting? Because it actually shows the names of some of the cricket characters -- Hughes and Scattergood, and here's a C Mathews (not sure if connected to Villa co-founder George) -- who actually co-founded the association football club we all love the next year ... I know this is all very well known stuff, but it's cool to see it in the original papers.  I was struck by the early sheer excitement for "Aston Villa" cricket in the 1870s (which I think simply means the sporting and gaming club connected to Villa Cross Wesleyan Chapel in Handsworth).  I guess I hadn't realised how the cricket-based origins of Aston Villa FC comes down to real people connections, ie, some of the same players who'd been publicly involved in cricket and in the old newspapers.  The name William Mason, for instance, mentioned on Villa's history timeline on its website todayalso turns up in some of these Aston Villa cricket matches, and he also played some version of rugby union foorball.

 

Quote

The story has long since been part of claret and blue folklore. Four gentlemen stood under a gas lamp in Heathfield Road in 1874 and engaged in a discussion which would create one of the greatest clubs in the world.

In different circumstances, Aston Villa might have become a rugby club. The four members of the Male Adult Bible Class at the Aston Villa Wesleyan Chapel had just watched one of their colleagues, William Mason, in action with an oval ball at Heathfield Park.

But John Hughes, William Price, George Matthews and William Scattergood concluded that rugby was too physical a game, deciding instead that Association football was the best option in their quest for a winter sporting activity to complement their thriving cricket section.

That gas lamp conversation resulted in the birth of a football institution.

 

And here's a cricket report I found from June 1868. It's notable that it again calls the cricket club "Aston Villa." 

Another thing I know for sure after doing some research into this early pre-Villa period is that it indeed wasn't really until George Ramsay's arrival from Glasgow and then the winter of 1876-1877 that AVFC football took off and got a lot more organized. It also seems almost overnight. In 1875, the information is so threadbare. But within a year, it all explodes, thanks clearly to Ramsay's influence. Aston Villa truly arrived then. It's when greater evidence of local football journalism begins, too. I know that we have that sacred 1874 as the beginning, but from what I can gather, it took time. It was literally a small group of friends at first around the Wesleyan Chapel just trying out something new and there was no telling how it would all turn out. 1874 and 1875 were very tentative and inchoate and hazy. I love how it truly all came out of a few blokes, but how else would it, I suppose? And the rest is history.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[maqroll]

On 15/12/2022 at 05:45, Xela said:

One of the best, if not the best, atmospheres at Villa Park. Especially the second half. 

Lee Hendrie was immense

 

We lost Townsend, Southgate, Ehiogu and Boateng all to Middlesboro.  

[Mark Albrighton]

Just wondering if the club plans to acknowledge the centenary of Tommy Ball’s death this year (11th November).

I’m not quite sure what it would be. I’m not expecting black armbands or anything, obviously being so long ago people likely won’t know about him and what happened.

I do feel like it should be marked in some way, maybe something like his picture being on the front of the match day programme (we are scheduled to play Fulham at Villa Park on the 11th November).

@OutByEaster?, apologies for me to try and clumsily pass it on to you, but wondered if this might be discussed the next time the supporters meet the club?

[VILLAMARV]

On 12/01/2017 at 14:53, VILLAMARV said:

This is just 'major' trophies, so included are the European Cup, European super Cup, 1st Division titles, FA Cups and League Cups.

Longest runs without a 'major' trophy:

1920/21 - 1956/57 - 30 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
1996/97 - Present - 21 seasons
1961/62 - 1974/75 - 14 seasons
1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons
1983/84 - 1993/94 - 11 seasons
1887/88 - 1893/94 -   7 seasons
1900/01 - 1904/05  -  5 seasons
1905/06 - 1909/10  -  5 seasons
1957/58 - 1960/61  -  4 seasons
1977/78 - 1980/81  -  4 seasons
1910/11 - 1912/13  -  3 seasons
1913/14 - 1919/20  -  3 seasons (4 lost to WWI)
1897/98 - 1898/99  -  2 seasons
1975/76 - 1976/77  -  2 seasons
1994/95 - 1995-96  -  2 seasons

1 season:
1894 - 1895
1895 - 1896
1896 - 1897
1899 - 1900
1981 - 1982
1982 - 1983

**Updated for 2023/24 season**

'major' trophies, so included are the European Cup, European super Cup, 1st Division titles, FA Cups and League Cups.

Longest runs without a 'major' trophy:

1920/21 - 1956/57 - 30 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
1996/97 - Present - 28 seasons
1961/62 - 1974/75 - 14 seasons
------ETC-------

On 13/01/2017 at 13:17, VILLAMARV said:

list below includes: European Cup, European Super Cup, Intertoto Cup, 1/2/3 Division titles, FA Cups and League Cups.

Runs without any trophy:

1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 seasons
2001/02 - Present - 15 seasons
1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons
1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
1983/84 - 1993/94 - 11 seasons
1961/62 - 1971/72 - 11 seasons
1887/88 - 1893/94  -  7 seasons
1996/97 - 2001/02  -  6 seasons
1900/01 - 1904/05  -  5 seasons
1905/06 - 1909/10  -  5 seasons
1977/78 - 1980/81  -  4 seasons
1910/11 - 1912/13  -  3 seasons
1913/14 - 1919/20  -  3 seasons (4 lost to WWI)
1957/58 - 1959/60  -  3 seasons
1972/73 - 1974/75  -  3 seasons
1897/98 - 1898/99  -  2 seasons
1975/76 - 1976/77  -  2 seasons
1994/95 - 1995-96  -  2 seasons
1 season:
1894 - 1895
1895 - 1896
1896 - 1897
1899 - 1900
1960 - 1961
1981 - 1982
1982 - 1983

If we're counting the bloomin' Intertoto Cup we're counting the Play-Off Final in 2019!

list below includes: European Cup, European Super Cup, Intertoto Cup, 1/2/3 Division titles, FA Cups, League Cups and Play-Off Finals.

Runs without any trophy:

1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 seasons
2001/02 - 2018/19 - 18 seasons
1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons
1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
1983/84 - 1993/94 - 11 seasons
1961/62 - 1971/72 - 11 seasons
1887/88 - 1893/94  -  7 seasons
1996/97 - 2001/02  -  6 seasons
1900/01 - 1904/05  -  5 seasons
1905/06 - 1909/10  -  5 seasons
2019/20 - Present - 5 seasons
------ETC------

On 14/01/2017 at 04:42, VILLAMARV said:

I also notice my mistake in the OP. In that the question didn't actually mention Europe, or the Charity Shield. So here's the version that actually answers the question

Runs without any domestic league, FA Cup or League Cup trophy:

1996/97 - Present  - 21 seasons
1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 seasons
1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons
1981/82 - 1993/94 - 13 seasons
1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
1961/62 - 1971/72 - 11 seasons
1887/88 - 1893/94  -  7 seasons
1900/01 - 1904/05  -  5 seasons
1905/06 - 1909/10  -  5 seasons
1977/78 - 1980/81  -  4 seasons
1910/11 - 1912/13  -  3 seasons
1913/14 - 1919/20  -  3 seasons (4 lost to WWI)
1957/58 - 1959/60  -  3 seasons
1972/73 - 1974/75  -  3 seasons
1897/98 - 1898/99  -  2 seasons
1975/76 - 1976/77  -  2 seasons
1994/95 - 1995-96  -  2 seasons
1 season:
1894 - 1895
1895 - 1896
1896 - 1897
1899 - 1900
1960 - 1961

The one for First Division, FA Cup and League Cup only:

Runs without a 'major' domestic trophy

1920/21 - 1956/57 - 30 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
1996/97 - Present - 21 seasons
1961/62 - 1974/75 - 14 seasons
1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons
1981/82 - 1993/94 - 13 seasons
1887/88 - 1893/94 -   7 seasons
1900/01 - 1904/05  -  5 seasons
1905/06 - 1909/10  -  5 seasons
1957/58 - 1960/61  -  4 seasons
1977/78 - 1980/81  -  4 seasons
1910/11 - 1912/13  -  3 seasons
1913/14 - 1919/20  -  3 seasons (4 lost to WWI)
1897/98 - 1898/99  -  2 seasons
1975/76 - 1976/77  -  2 seasons
1994/95 - 1995-96  -  2 seasons
1 season:
1894 - 1895
1895 - 1896
1896 - 1897
1899 - 1900

Runs without any domestic league, FA Cup or League Cup trophy:

1996/97 - Present  - 28 seasons
1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 seasons
1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons
1981/82 - 1993/94 - 13 seasons
1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
------ETC------

The one for First Division, FA Cup and League Cup only:

Runs without a 'major' domestic trophy

1920/21 - 1956/57 - 30 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
1996/97 - Present - 28 seasons
1961/62 - 1974/75 - 14 seasons
1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons
1981/82 - 1993/94 - 13 seasons

On 14/01/2017 at 04:43, VILLAMARV said:

And here's the one which incorporates the 1981 Charity Shield. Which both Villa and Spurs won. At the same time. And officially held for 6 months each. The 80's eh?

Runs without any domestic trophy

1996/97 - Present  - 21 seasons
1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 seasons
1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons
1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
1982/83 - 1993/94 - 12 seasons
1961/62 - 1971/72 - 11 seasons
1887/88 - 1893/94  -  7 seasons
1900/01 - 1904/05  -  5 seasons
1905/06 - 1909/10  -  5 seasons
1977/78 - 1980/81  -  4 seasons
1910/11 - 1912/13  -  3 seasons
1913/14 - 1919/20  -  3 seasons (4 lost to WWI)
1957/58 - 1959/60  -  3 seasons
1972/73 - 1974/75  -  3 seasons
1897/98 - 1898/99  -  2 seasons
1975/76 - 1976/77  -  2 seasons
1994/95 - 1995-96  -  2 seasons
1 season:
1894 - 1895
1895 - 1896
1896 - 1897
1899 - 1900
1960 - 1961
1981 - 1982

Again, if we're counting half a Charity Shield we're counting the Play-Off Final right?

Runs without any domestic trophy

1996/97 - 2018/19  - 23 seasons
1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 seasons
1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons
1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
1982/83 - 1993/94 - 12 seasons
1961/62 - 1971/72 - 11 seasons
1887/88 - 1893/94  -  7 seasons
1900/01 - 1904/05  -  5 seasons
1905/06 - 1909/10  -  5 seasons
2019/20 - Present - 5 seasons
------ETC------

Just a bit of housekeeping

[Chicken Field]

Does anyone know of any footage of our game against Celta Vigo at the Hawthorns on 2nd August, 2000. The referee was having an absolute disaster of a performance, with rumours of him being drunk. He dished out 3 red cards, and blew the final whistle on the 88th minute, having to afterwards resume play. It was my first time seeing Villa live, would love to see some footage of the game. 

[VILLAMARV]

On 20/06/2018 at 11:29, VILLAMARV said:

Just back to World Cup appearances for a second here's a list by country.

Nations represented by number of different players:

5 - England, Republic of Ireland
1 - Sweden, Holland, Northern Ireland, Turkey, Ecuador, Yugoslavia, Czech Republic, Scotland, Australia, Iceland

Nations represented by World Cup appearances:

30 - Republic of Ireland
20 - England
8 - Sweden
7 - Holland
5 - Northern Ireland and Turkey
4 - Ecuador
3 - Australia, Iceland
2 - Yugoslavia
1 - Scotland, Czech Republic

**Updated after 2022 Qatar World Cup**

Do we count on-loan at the time Jan Bednarek? I'm going with yes we do. So...

Nations represented by number of different players:

5 - England, Republic of Ireland
2 - Poland
1 - Sweden, Holland, Northern Ireland, Turkey, Ecuador, Yugoslavia, Czech Republic, Scotland, Australia, Iceland, Argentina, Belgium

Nations represented by World Cup appearances:

30 - Republic of Ireland
20 - England
8 - Sweden
7 - Holland, Argentina
5 - Northern Ireland, Turkey, Poland
4 - Ecuador
3 - Australia, Iceland
2 - Yugoslavia, Belgium
1 - Scotland, Czech Republic

On 19/06/2018 at 22:45, VILLAMARV said:

That's 89 appearances in total with McGrath fittingly at the top of the pile with 9 games.

9 - McGrath (1990 + 1994)
8 - Mellberg (2002 + 2006), Staunton (1994 + 2002)
7 - Vlaar (2014)
6 - Platt (1990)
5 - McParland (1958), Hodge (1986), Cascarino (1990), Alpay (2002)
4 - Houghton (1994), Townsend (1994), De la Cruz (2006)
3 - Vassell (2002), Milner (2010), Jedinak (2018), Bjarnason (2018)
2 - Southgate (1998), Milosevic (1998)
1 - Evans (1982), Baros (2006), Heskey (2010)

And the nearly men - Players in the finals squads but never got on the pitch:

1958 - Vic Crowe - Wales
1982 - Peter Withe - England
2002 - Bosko Balaban - Croatia
2010 - Stephen Warnock - England, Brad Guzan - USA
2014 - Brad Guzan - USA
2018 - Ahmed Elmohamady - Egypt

No Villa goalkeeper has ever appeared at a World Cup, Guzan there the only one that's ever made a squad.
 

Well Martinez certainly resigned that last line to the annuls of history eh?

That's 103 appearances in total with McGrath fittingly at the top of the pile with 9 games.

9 - McGrath (1990 + 1994)
8 - Mellberg (2002 + 2006), Staunton (1994 + 2002)
7 - Vlaar (2014), MARTINEZ* (2022)
6 - Platt (1990)
5 - McParland (1958), Hodge (1986), Cascarino (1990), Alpay (2002)
4 - Houghton (1994), Townsend (1994), De la Cruz (2006), Cash (2022)
3 - Vassell (2002), Milner (2010), Jedinak (2018), Bjarnason (2018)
2 - Southgate (1998), Milosevic (1998), Dendonker (2022)
1 - Evans (1982), Baros (2006), Heskey (2010), Jan Bednarek (2022 - On loan from Southampton)

* = WINNER

 

[VILLAMARV]

On 17/01/2018 at 15:41, VILLAMARV said:

Another question popped up (from the Jan '18 transfer window thread) about what players have re-signed for us. And whether loans like Milner 'count'. As ever in this thread correct it if it's wrong! (especially the transfer fees!) In this instance it might well be as I've mostly used wikipedia as a source but it looks like there have only ever been 4.

Seems Andy Gray was the first - after Joining us from Dundee Utd in '75 and winning the Golden Boot in '77 as well as the League Cup, following it up by being young player of the year and PFA player's player of the year in '78 he joined Wolves in '79 for an English record fee of £1.5m where he picked up a league cup winners medal. In 1983 he joined Everton for £250k and had 2 successful years there winning the FA Cup, Charity Shield, 1st Division title and European Cup Winners Cup. Lineker's arrival prompted his departure from Everton and he re-signed for Villa in '85 for £150k and the ill-fated second spell was upon us. He left in '87 to join the Baggies, but would be back in the dug-out alongside Big Ron a few years later of course.

Gordon Sidney Cowans - signed 3 times for us did Sid. First in 1976 after completing his apprenticeship. Between then and his departure for Bari in 1985 he won the League Cup, First Division, European Cup, and European Super Cup with us. As well as picking up a young player of the year award. He left for Serie A with a clause in his Bari contract to give us first refusal should they decide to sell. After 3 years in Italy and after GT's arrival and subsequent promotion he re-joined Villa in '88. Big Ron sold him to Blackburn in '91 and re-signed him on a free transfer in the close season of '93. He then joined Derby the following February. Obviously he would go on to return home as a coach.

Steve Staunton - After breaking into the Liverpool side in the late '80's and winning the FA Cup, 1st Division title and 2 Charity Shields there he joined Villa in '91 for £1.1m where he helped us win 2 League Cups ('94 + '96). He left to return to Liverpool on a free transfer in 1998 before returning 2 years later - also on a free transfer in 2000. Picking up an (illustrious ) Intertoto Cup winners medal before leaving for Coventry on another free transfer in 2003.

James Milner - First a spell on loan from Newcastle in the 2005-2006 season as a makeweight in Solano's own return to Newcastle under O'Leary before signing permanently in 2008 for a reported £12m under O'Neill. Picked up the young player of the year award in 2010 and was sold to Man City that summer in deal of Stephen Ireland and money 'worth' a reported £26m. 

Add Ashley Young to that list

[allani]

On 04/07/2023 at 04:11, Marka Ragnos said:

 

 

Swingswood would be a great name for an opening batter.  I can just imagine the fun that the TMS team would have with a partnership between Swingswood and Scattergood.  Something along the lines of "the partnership has now reached 100 off just 78 balls as the aggressive opener swings wood to scatter good fielders all around the boundary leaving plenty of room to rotate strike bu nudging easy singles and twos".