Gareth Southgate

[leemond2008]

16 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

i think you've missed the point

the stuff about his personality and him being a dick isn't mainstream, I would say the vast majority of your average football fans like him, its heightened here because of Grealish and the hypocrisy that surrounded southgate when he spoke about him

you then have something deeply ingrained in English football that you might not have in other countries, the belief that every English manager picks his favourites rather than the players that he should be picking, this is something that has become increasingly apparent with Southgate and why the tide has turned, if he was fit maguire would be playing here, his comments of phillips are bizarre and no one in the country was on the same page as him, this is a criticism that every england manager in my life has suffered from, its just a thing here

then you have his qualifications as a manager, which frankly he doesn't have, he was terrible at boro, he wasn't that good with the U21s, he's basically been given the job because he was a suit who walked down the halls of the FA as he got a cushy number overseeing elite development or something, i don't know this for sure but you could say he did actually do something really positive with st georges park and then set the blueprint for how successful we've been at youth level in the last 6 years

but then that's the next problem...we've been successful at youth level, we have the players, more specifically we have attacking players....and yet we play absolutely **** terrible football... if you are an average football fan who doesn't care about his interviews, doesn't care about his team selection, doesn't care about his CV you will still watch this and see that the football is bad, we've stunk this tournament out, we played scared and it does stem from southgate and his tactics, we play how he wants us to, he openly admits we play to snatch games with moments of magic and for too many of us that's simply not good enough

if you look at the build up to the swiss game you'll see plenty of comments on here and in the media about their front 3 having enough about them to give us problems - those 3 got 8 goals between them in club football last year, how many did our front 3 get? and yet the swiss pose more attacking threat than we do? and you wonder why people are pissed off?

So what you are saying is that basically he's a massive fraud bastard anus clown smug condescending conman bellend knob word removed. 

[fightoffyour]

12 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Fraud. Bastard. Anus. Clown. Smug. Condescending. Conman. Bellend. Knob. **** Wet Wipe (?). And let's not forget: Words removed. Words removed. Words removed. Words removed.  etc.

And he's a cocknose

[HanoiVillan]

12 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

 

Reading back through posts, and keep seeing the same words.

 

Fraud. Bastard. Anus. Clown. Smug. Condescending. Conman. Bellend. Knob. **** Wet Wipe (?). And let's not forget: Words removed. Words removed. Words removed. Words removed.  etc.

Sometimes, people merely express superlative shock: Wow or Incredible or Stunning. Etc.

 

I get the idea. It hasn't varied much. It's remarkably consistent if nothing else. Still, the burning, unquenchable intensity of it is sort astounding for someone who lives far away from it all. I find it fascinating and sickening all the same.

 

Is Southgate really worth such cathartic negative energy, I ask myself? To me, it’s obvious. No! But to so many, he’s the bad vibes machine that keeps indulgers happy. And who am I to judge that fun? I don't have the right. But what's being fashioned through all this, I have to wonder? Some new rough beast? I ask myself that, but that doesn't matter, really. It’s a journey of loathing, not the destination. And it's based on something interesting, it seems to me: A sort of English belief in integrity. It's a ruthless value. I think it all really went "south" when Southgate started to come across like a dick. A fool, England will tolerate. A fool with the smell of arrogance -- nope. It's over.

We actually have articles coming out in the States now on how much the English hate Southgate. I can't get away from this shite. Can you please keep this shite contained? We have enough over here, thank you.

 

You lot have got Nigel Farage running around and yet found a way to locate someone more hateful, more invidious, more of a "fraud." Really? Yes. Why would I even ask that? When Starmer and company come in, it won't take away the bad taste of fourteen years of freely elected Tory awfulness in the UK. Britain gorged itself on that, and is now spitting it all out. For an outside observer, somehow Southgate seems sadly connected the process.

 

I'm an England supporter, but I can't imagine the reverse with one of our national team coaches here in my second country, tbh. I don't think it's ever happened, not quite like this.

 

Something about the vitriol morphed this week. It reminds me much of the Ten Hag criticism and Man U fans constantly whinging about themselves. It's become a Southgatephobia Scene That Celebrates Itself. It’s grown legs. It never stops. England's wins may bely the Scene, but who cares? Not really the point, I gather.

 

No, criticism of Southgate didn't cause England to play like shit (and then win), but I’m starting to think the vitriol has probably finally poisoned any modicum of confidence that had been there in the players. I wonder if that’s the point? To sort of get it out of England’s system, like the Tories.

 

It would be hilarious if England somehow survived Switzerland, but I don't think the England of yesterday will survive England this time. Which is, really, very English.

 

 

 

I predict you won't get much thanks for this post, but FWIW I think there are some fair points and some that I agree with less (I don't think the analogy to politics is particularly convincing, mainly), but the big picture point you're making - that the atmosphere is totally toxic, beyond any good reason - is I think right. I'm sufficiently contrarian that I end up defending him on here probably more than I actually believe just because the level of vitriol seems so disproportionate to the actual offence. 

If a manager stays in a post long enough, the critics are sure to be 'proven right' eventually - no manager's optimal time in a role is forever - and a lot of people are very happy to feel vindicated in hating him this summer because our performances have undeniably been poor, ineffective and above all (the most cardinal sin) boring. I agree with his critics that he shouldn't carry on past this tournament. But him running out of road doesn't mean the most unhinged criticisms have been right, and it's pretty energy-sapping to read. I mostly just wish all the people who hate watching England games so very much would shut the **** up and stop watching then, but that isn't going to happen unfortunately. 

[MrBlack]

44 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I predict you won't get much thanks for this post, but FWIW I think there are some fair points and some that I agree with less (I don't think the analogy to politics is particularly convincing, mainly), but the big picture point you're making - that the atmosphere is totally toxic, beyond any good reason - is I think right. I'm sufficiently contrarian that I end up defending him on here probably more than I actually believe just because the level of vitriol seems so disproportionate to the actual offence. 

If a manager stays in a post long enough, the critics are sure to be 'proven right' eventually - no manager's optimal time in a role is forever - and a lot of people are very happy to feel vindicated in hating him this summer because our performances have undeniably been poor, ineffective and above all (the most cardinal sin) boring. I agree with his critics that he shouldn't carry on past this tournament. But him running out of road doesn't mean the most unhinged criticisms have been right, and it's pretty energy-sapping to read. I mostly just wish all the people who hate watching England games so very much would shut the **** up and stop watching then, but that isn't going to happen unfortunately. 

I don't jump off the fence very often with my opinions. When I do, it's usually because I've got irrefutable evidence. I sided against Southgate during Euro 2020, and everything he's done since has confirmed my view. He won't change,  he will get lucky,  England will almost defintely lose to a top 12 team. 

Watching them you could draw parallels with the saying "it's like watching a car crash".  I know I won't enjoy it and it will look painful, but I can't help but watch it because deep down somewhere i want England to play well and win. Could Southgate prove me wrong after 4 years of proving me right? I very much doubt it, but it's not impossible. His media comments are utterly bizarre and reveal how clueless he is, so there's no likelihood he'll change.

On his style of play...I've watched most of the games this tournament, but I wouldn't go out my way to watch England as a neutral.

[MarkLillis]

I’m certain he’s an experienced coach.

I know he has achieved a lot in previous tournaments (apart from winning obviously)!

All I can come to is the conclusion that he thinks playing this way is the only way these players can succeed.

So…..are we all wrong about how good our players are? I mean Gareth knows them all better right?

[Rob182]

Beaky Prick

[leemond2008]

7 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Beaky Prick

he's a massive fraud bastard anus clown smug condescending conman bellend knob cocknosed beaky prick word removed 

[Dodgyknees]

Gareth Southgate plays FIFA 98 on amateur mode.

[GarethRDR]

Steady on now, some of us Gareths just like to unwind with the pressure off.

[Adman]

People love someone to hate don't they

[Rds1983]

4 hours ago, MarkLillis said:

So…..are we all wrong about how good our players are? I mean Gareth knows them all better right?

We have Bayern's main striker up front (who spends most of his time in central midfield for us), who cost £100m and is top scorer in Germany  

We have the best player in Spain, who Real paid £90m for. Who is a La Liga and Champs League winner.

We have the best player in England in Foden, a player who has won multiple Premier League titles and the Champs League and who Pep (arguably the best manager in the World) raves about.

That's 3 World class players who could walk into practically any side in the World.

They're supported by some very good player's and it's a very strong squad.

Either they've downed tools or it's the manager who is at fault. If they have downed tools, it's the manager's job to sort that.

The issue is clearly with Southgate. 

Edited Wednesday at 16:32 by Rds1983

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, Rds1983 said:

We have Bayern's main striker up front (who spends most of his time in central midfield for us), who cost £100m and is top scorer in Germany  

We have the best player in Spain, who Real paid £90m for. Who is a La Liga and Champs League winner.

We have the best player in England in Foden, a player who has won multiple Premier League titles and the Champs League and who Pep (arguably the best manager in the World) raves about.

That's 3 World class players who could walk into practically any side in the World.

They're supported by some very good player's and it's a very strong squad.

Either they've downed tools or it's the manager who is at fault. If they have downed tools, it's the manager's job to sort that.

The issue is clearly with Southgate. 

If they've downed tools at least drop them and stick someone else in

His stubbornness over foden in particular is just bad management, he's not working, at no point in the 4 games has he even looked like working but so far he's not really even been subbed bar injury time has he?

[Dodgyknees]

3 hours ago, GarethRDR said:

Steady on now, some of us Gareths just like to unwind with the pressure off.

It's a Gareth trait to sit back tbh 

[foreveryoung]

If we are fair, after calling him names, I would say he is not a bad manager. but as a coach, if he does coach at all, he is piss poor. To blame Steve Holland is just a get his get out clause, he's a dinosaur too.

You would never see him with the passion of Pep, or Klopp, or even our man Unai, giving players the tactical wavy hands on the sidelines, pulling a player over and giving him what for, like pep did with Grealish, calling a single player out, shouting for him to get in position, an I think this is half the problem. Southgate's a bit pussy cat, looks after the players, doing his best for them, when in reality, it should be 5 weeks of graft, do this, do that, build that winning mentality, cause that is what is missing in this team, an Southgate will never be the one to install it, he's just not that personality.

I would bet any money, he wouldn't last 5 minutes in the PL with any team. The players just wouldn't respect him, an he couldn't make them.  He's a dead man walking, he's finished, I really don't know why he thought he could do anything in this tounament. For me he will leave as a loser, for many of his peers, he will leave as the best England manager since 1966, well he got us to that piece of piss final innit!!

[GarethRDR]

16 minutes ago, Dodgyknees said:

It's a Gareth trait to sit back tbh 

I want to be angry, but truth is always sobering.

[Jenko#4]

2 hours ago, Rds1983 said:

We have Bayern's main striker up front (who spends most of his time in central midfield for us), who cost £100m and is top scorer in Germany  

We have the best player in Spain, who Real paid £90m for. Who is a La Liga and Champs League winner.

We have the best player in England in Foden, a player who has won multiple Premier League titles and the Champs League and who Pep (arguably the best manager in the World) raves about.

That's 3 World class players who could walk into practically any side in the World.

They're supported by some very good player's and it's a very strong squad.

Either they've downed tools or it's the manager who is at fault. If they have downed tools, it's the manager's job to sort that.

The issue is clearly with Southgate. 

You could argue that all three of our World Class players best/most favoured position is some sort of number 10 though. We don’t have our three best players dotted around the team, they all play a similar role for their clubs, so it’s the Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes conundrum all over again. I’m not a fan of Southgate, but if the likes of Capello and Erikssen couldn’t solve it before, what hope has a man who has only ever managed Middlesbrough before? I don’t think that can be pinned on him. 
 

For me, the bigger issue is the lack of any fit left back in the squad. That’s unforgivable. 

[Rds1983]

37 minutes ago, Jenko#4 said:

You could argue that all three of our World Class players best/most favoured position is some sort of number 10 though. We don’t have our three best players dotted around the team, they all play a similar role for their clubs, so it’s the Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes conundrum all over again. I’m not a fan of Southgate, but if the likes of Capello and Erikssen couldn’t solve it before, what hope has a man who has only ever managed Middlesbrough before? I don’t think that can be pinned on him. 
 

For me, the bigger issue is the lack of any fit left back in the squad. That’s unforgivable. 

Lack of a fit LB is on Southgate as he could have taken one.

Bellingham is great at 10 but can play very well on the left or as an attacking CM.

Foden played 18 games for City on the right with 8 goals and 4 assists. 

Kane should be up top.

[Marka Ragnos]

Applying the "Look at Emery after Gerrard" narrative to Southgate versus Whoever Comes Next is a false equivalence in some ways. There's just no huge comparison. Southgate is nothing like Gerrard in sensibility, coaching style, history, tone, or tactics. Nothing. Doesn't mean Southgate might not have his own set of fatal flaws, but they're not Gerrard's, IMO.

I don't think Emery would be any more successful with this bunch. It's a mature, overcoddled squad. Too mature.  Too many over-hyped, overcooked stars too set in their ways. They're not proving to be malleable, but that could be changing, too. That's why when Foden says players are partly to blame, he may actually have a point but actually they're not to blame in the way the press accounts suggest. It's not a lack of skill or effort, not really. It's being too deeply entrenched in their own habits and reacting poorly to the need to change. No surprise the best England players are easily identifiable as the greenest or most raw. They're the ones making the plays or setting them up. The vets are standing around. But Southgate doesn't have time for a rebuild, so it's going to be a challenge. Of course, Foden is just going to enrage the haters more with this, and the journos clearly are going to lick this all up. But it doesn't mean he's not right in principle, even if it's a narrow perspective.

Quote

 

“In training, he has been telling us to press and be high up on the pitch and I feel like sometimes, it has to come from the players.

“We have to be leaders. In games we could have got together a little bit more and worked out a solution.

“So yes, we have spoken about it more. If it happens again in a game, we can get together and find a solution, see where it is going wrong and adapt our press.”

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 22:40 by Marka Ragnos

[chrisvilla4]

Gareth Southgate enjoys winding down with a game of sensible soccer, purely because he likes the name.

[villa4europe]

10 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Applying the "Look at Emery after Gerrard" narrative to Southgate versus Whoever Comes Next is a false equivalence in some ways. There's just no huge comparison. Southgate is nothing like Gerrard in sensibility, coaching style, history, tone, or tactics. Nothing. Doesn't mean Southgate might not have his own set of fatal flaws, but they're not Gerrard's, IMO.

I don't think Emery would be any more successful with this bunch. It's a mature, overcoddled squad. Too mature.  Too many over-hyped, overcooked stars too set in their ways. They're not proving to be malleable, but that could be changing, too. That's why when Foden says players are partly to blame, he may actually have a point but actually they're not to blame in the way the press accounts suggest. It's not a lack of skill or effort, not really. It's being too deeply entrenched in their own habits and reacting poorly to the need to change. No surprise the best England players are easily identifiable as the greenest or most raw. They're the ones making the plays or setting them up. The vets are standing around. But Southgate doesn't have time for a rebuild, so it's going to be a challenge. Of course, Foden is just going to enrage the haters more with this, and the journos clearly are going to lick this all up. But it doesn't mean he's not right in principle, even if it's a narrow perspective.

 

southgate rebuild?

the man would happily be playing maguire, shaw, henderson and phillips if he could

one of the most stubborn managers around when it comes to team selection rebuilding?

you're way off