Gareth Southgate

[Genie]

It is a unique situation really because we’re unbeaten and top of the group but everyone is so disappointed.

It doesn’t feel like this has happened to this extreme before. It feels a bit brattish, but the frustration is that we’re way off where we expect to be, and that any half decent side will pick us apart easily, as soon as we play them.

Its not about the results so far, it’s the performances and the feeling of impending disaster going forward.

The previous game was poor and we all hoped for a bit of a reaction. Higher intensity, a stronger desire, more risk taking against a poor side. It felt like a step back which is a big part of the anger and frustration.

Theres just no movement in the opposition half. The ball is with the defenders on the half way line and everyone is stood rooted the spot waiting for something to happen. It’s so basic, lazy, fearful, whatever you want to call it.

[Zatman]

17 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’m picturing Gareth back at the hotel chatting to his assistants frustratingly asking why EVERYONE else has got it so wrong? 

That Oblak doesn't win player of the tournament then will be a crime

3 cheers for Oblak

[fightoffyour]

3 minutes ago, Genie said:

It is a unique situation really because we’re unbeaten and top of the group but everyone is so disappointed.

It doesn’t feel like this has happened to this extreme before. It feels a bit brattish, but the frustration is that we’re way off where we expect to be, and that any half decent side will pick us apart easily, as soon as we play them.

Its not about the results so far, it’s the performances and the feeling of impending disaster going forward.

The previous game was poor and we all hoped for a bit of a reaction. Higher intensity, a stronger desire, more risk taking against a poor side. It felt like a step back which is a big part of the anger and frustration.

Theres just no movement in the opposition half. The ball is with the defenders on the half way line and everyone is stood rooted the spot waiting for something to happen. It’s so basic, lazy, fearful, whatever you want to call it.

Added to that what the manager and players are saying. They seem completely oblivious to how bad it is. They don’t understand the problem, they think they’re doing great.

[Tom13]

[striker]

It's really down to team selection how England are currently playing. A midfield of Rice and the three choices (so far) joining him aren't going to produce anything more than they do for their clubs as DMs or at FB.

You also have Trippier on one side trying to provide width while a one trick pony like Saka on the other who is always going to cut in and use his left foot. Something the opposition duly noted after the first game, if not before. This has left England with no threat from either flank or indeed through the middle especially when Foden has been totally ineffective floating instead of his club role as a 10.

Then you have Kane up front! I know his goal record but his total lack of pace or movement in behind is further hindering the team.

Furthermore, since McGuire has been left out due to injury England have lost their threat from dead ball situations. In fact most of if not all free kicks have been wasted with no dead ball specialist in the side.

Add all of that up and England's lack of goals or flair at the moment shouldn't be a surprise.

England do however have flair players in the squad with pace such as Gordon, Palmer, Eze and a vastly under used Wharton. You seen the difference last night when Palmer was finally used. I'd also add to that England's other two strikers Watkins and Toney! Either one would give more movement and pace to England's attack.

It would be a brave decision by Southgate to make that many changes. He'd be ripping up his blueprint and actually admitting to everyone it wasn't working.

However, I think if he did start some of those players mentioned and England started to play well most would praise rather than deride him.

Edited Wednesday at 14:15 by striker

[Wainy316]

 

[Genie]

18 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 15:03 by Genie

[TRO]

1 hour ago, theboyangel said:

the FA would be totally stupid to hire Carsley - it’d be rinse and repeat but with a different yes man at the helm. 

No boat rocking please.....

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

It is a unique situation really because we’re unbeaten and top of the group but everyone is so disappointed.

It doesn’t feel like this has happened to this extreme before. It feels a bit brattish, but the frustration is that we’re way off where we expect to be, and that any half decent side will pick us apart easily, as soon as we play them.

Its not about the results so far, it’s the performances and the feeling of impending disaster going forward.

The previous game was poor and we all hoped for a bit of a reaction. Higher intensity, a stronger desire, more risk taking against a poor side. It felt like a step back which is a big part of the anger and frustration.

Theres just no movement in the opposition half. The ball is with the defenders on the half way line and everyone is stood rooted the spot waiting for something to happen. It’s so basic, lazy, fearful, whatever you want to call it.

The objective is to win the group, How we do it, doesn't seem to be an issue for the manager. However, technically has has a "get out of jail" card....and his after match comments have become denial, towards good performances, and clinging to the results.

Football is generally about results, and he has presided over a fair few, without being convincing......The problem as I see it is, the results that are unconvincing, can so easily turn in to defeats.....The eye test does have significance and too many football fans are in total agreement on Southgate and his negative troops.... I fancy it's just a matter of time, before the security of results drift away from him.

Results and performances are self reliant.....One without the other is unfulfilling and incomplete....real success relies on them both.

Football is rarely static, it's more dynamic, where you are either on the way up or on the way down.....I fear the team is playing like, he hasn't got long.

 

 

[PaulC]

The only thing I don't like is all this negativity must be having an effect on the players. Its draining the energy away. I think people should just get behind their country and the time for inquests shouid be when we are out

 We all know this is Southgates final tournament. He won't carry on even if he wins it. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, striker said:

It's really down to team selection how England are currently playing. A midfield of Rice and the three choices (so far) joining him aren't going to produce anything more than they do for their clubs as DMs or at FB.

You also have Trippier on one side trying to provide width while a one trick pony like Saka on the other who is always going to cut in and use his left foot. Something the opposition duly noted after the first game, if not before. This has left England with no threat from either flank or indeed through the middle especially when Foden has been totally ineffective floating instead of his club role as a 10.

Then you have Kane up front! I know his goal record but his total lack of pace or movement in behind is further hindering the team.

Furthermore, since McGuire has been left out due to injury England have lost their threat from dead ball situations. In fact most of if not all free kicks have been wasted with no dead ball specialist in the side.

Add all of that up and England's lack of goals or flair at the moment shouldn't be a surprise.

England do however have flair players in the squad with pace such as Gordon, Palmer, Eze and a vastly under used Wharton. You seen the difference last night when Palmer was finally used. I'd also add to that England's other two strikers Watkins and Toney! Either one would give more movement and pace to England's attack.

It would be a brave decision by Southgate to make that many changes. He'd be ripping up his blueprint and actually admitting to everyone it wasn't working.

However, I think if he did start some of those players mentioned and England started to play well most would praise rather than deride him.

I don't think it matters that much, who we bring on.......The mood is all wrong, they look like they are not coached.....the interaction is bland, the passing is unimaginative, the movement off the ball is laboured and drowsy, there is no effervescence or zip in the play, the decision making is lethargic and blurred, there is no on the pitch leadership, we lack courage and bravery.....

other than that, we are great.

[PaulC]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I don't think it matters that much, who we bring on.......The mood is all wrong, they look like they are not coached.....the interaction is bland, the passing is unimaginative, the movement off the ball is laboured and drowsy, there is no effervescence or zip in the play, the decision making is lethargic and blurred, there is no on the pitch leadership, we lack courage and bravery.....

other than that, we are great.

Basically we are using  70% of the pitch. On the left side Foden keeps wanting to cut bsck inside. Trippier doesn't overlap. if he picked a left footed left back and Gordon that wouid make a difference too easy to defend against.

[Wainy316]

Well that wasn't very dramatic in the end was it

 

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, PaulC said:

The only thing I don't like is all this negativity must be having an effect on the players. Its draining the energy away. I think people should just get behind their country and the time for inquests shouid be when we are out

 We all know this is Southgates final tournament. He won't carry on even if he wins it. 

I think you are right Paul......but it's hard to get excited about a Donkey, who wants to lie on the floor.

I can just visualise a wildly gesticulating guy waving his arms, to his hearts content, shout and screaming encouragement at the animal, only for him to lift his eye lid and thinking ...........Pratt.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

It is a unique situation really because we’re unbeaten and top of the group but everyone is so disappointed.

It doesn’t feel like this has happened to this extreme before. It feels a bit brattish, but the frustration is that we’re way off where we expect to be, and that any half decent side will pick us apart easily, as soon as we play them.

Its not about the results so far, it’s the performances and the feeling of impending disaster going forward.

The previous game was poor and we all hoped for a bit of a reaction. Higher intensity, a stronger desire, more risk taking against a poor side. It felt like a step back which is a big part of the anger and frustration.

Theres just no movement in the opposition half. The ball is with the defenders on the half way line and everyone is stood rooted the spot waiting for something to happen. It’s so basic, lazy, fearful, whatever you want to call it.

This group has been a microcosm of his tenure to be fair.

As someone said in another thread, his wikipedia looks amazing, because he's reached semi finals and finals when previous england managers didn't. Just like this group. We've qualified top so on paper it looks fine

But anyone who watches the team knows that we've underachieved, and what we have achieved we've managed through favourable draws. We've still only ever beaten one good team, and they weren't even that good at the time (Germany)

 

If we'd had any other group at this competition we'd have struggled. If we'd had a group like Group B we'd be out

[Davkaus]

8 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Well that wasn't very dramatic in the end was it

 

Game's gone, isn't it. Back in the day, men were men, they wouldn't have told him until the tournament was over, and he'd be able to tell his kid that when they were born he was in Germany training to  pass the ball backwards for a demoralising defeat to a third rate nation we ought to beat. 

Edited Wednesday at 15:33 by Davkaus

[foreveryoung]

So Fodens left the England camp to at home with his family?

Is he coming back before the next game?

I'm thinking if he was on fire, he wouldn't have gone.

Edited Wednesday at 15:33 by foreveryoung

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Basically we are using  70% of the pitch. On the left side Foden keeps wanting to cut bsck inside. Trippier doesn't overlap. if he picked a left footed left back and Gordon that wouid make a difference too easy to defend against.

He had a good option , Grealish......if he chose to ignore that, that's on him.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Game's gone, isn't it. Back in the day, men where men, they wouldn't have told him until the tournament was over, and he'd be able to tell his kid that when they were born he was in Germany passing the ball backwards during a demoralising defeat to a third rate nation we ought to beat. 

Until we know the reason, it's hard to comment.

[foreveryoung]

Just now, TRO said:

Until we know the reason, it's hard to comment.

He's gone to be at the birth of his 3rd child.