Zatman Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, sharkyvilla said: And throw Gerrard in as the next manager for example and watch the culture get blown apart. Southgate has done a great job to make them come across as a likeable bunch. Saka dropped for not looking him in the eye, Bellingham playing the McGinn role at full back Edited December 13, 2022 by Zatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Pinebro said: Its almost like his ex England captain mate who he called his hero needs a new job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 2 hours ago, duke313 said: Xenophobia, not racism. I kind of get where he's coming from though. I think International football is different from club football, the best players from the nation are picked to represent the team, the same should apply to coaching staff IMO. The English FA using their wealth hiring an elite foreign manager is effectively cheating, no different to what City and PSG are doing throwing money about to buy success.. If a perfect example is villa look how many british managers we have had and they have been failures. Its not where they are from its how well and the best chance we have of winning things. I think its arrogant personally saying we are above appointing anyone thats non english. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phily85 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 I'd understand all this debate more if we hadnt already had foreign coaches managing England 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, phily85 said: I'd understand all this debate more if we hadnt already had foreign coaches managing England Exactly and i dont think sven and capello were failures like mclaren and keegan If i was looking at Englishmen on only one i would give to is howe. Rodgers if be hapoy with but he isnt english Edited December 13, 2022 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 I'd prefer an English manager, on the grounds that when England win (ha!) a cup, then the starting 11, the subs, and the manager are all English and we've won as a country. But, the manager doesn't kick the ball, and I very much doubt every coach, analyst, and cone placer involved in the England coaching setup are English. So if we find a foreign manager that is better suited than any English counterpart and they want the job, it's a no brainer to appoint them Especially if it means we get rid of the boring and utter bottle job Southgate. He may (or may not) have had something to do with the harmony in the squad, but his lack of courage is reflected in the way we play, the subs he makes, and the results we get against large nations. We need a confident manager, wherever they're from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, MrBlack said: I'd prefer an English manager, on the grounds that when England win (ha!) a cup, then the starting 11, the subs, and the manager are all English and we've won as a country. But, the manager doesn't kick the ball, and I very much doubt every coach, analyst, and cone placer involved in the England coaching setup are English. So if we find a foreign manager that is better suited than any English counterpart and they want the job, it's a no brainer to appoint them Especially if it means we get rid of the boring and utter bottle job Southgate. He may (or may not) have had something to do with the harmony in the squad, but his lack of courage is reflected in the way we play, the subs he makes, and the results we get against large nations. We need a confident manager, wherever they're from. Kind of where im at but a smy above post who is there apart from howe? Lampard? Gerrard? Both those are losers to me. Maybe cooper at forest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Rodders said: It's weird, yeah, usually best person for job whoever it is, but I do prefer it when international managers are 'homegrown'. And with bigger nations especially it's a bit damning if with all the money invested in our sport if we can't find an English manager up to the job. Can understand it more with smaller nations, looking to develop bringing in expertise from overseas. Not an issue I'm bothered enough to die on a hill over or anything, but I do confess given the choice, in this particular instance, I'd prefer an English option. Tuchel also feels like a disastrous choice irrespective of nationality anyway Yes, this. I think people using the term 'racism' to respond to Carragher's tweet are just cheapening the currency of the term; we've seen in the last few weeks the amount of pride that Senegalese fans have in having a Senegalese manager, and that Moroccan fans have in having a Moroccan manager. This isn't 'racism' and I don't think anyone would think to apply that in those cases, so it isn't 'racism' to prefer an English manager for the England team either. It *would* be racist if framed as an argument like 'we should have an English manager because only English people are intelligent enough and have a refined enough understanding of the sport to coach our team' or whatever, but that would be an absurd and obviously incorrect thing to think so nobody is arguing that. As you say, it's not a major issue, I'm fine with a foreign coach if that's what the FA want or think would be a better fit, but the aim should be to have good enough English coaches the majority of the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 Spot on that caller is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 The England manager should be English. Thats not racist, or xenophobic IMO. It should be the pinnacle for English born managers. The criteria to manage a national team should be the same as playing for them. I'm sure someone will prove me wrong but I couldn't imagine France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Brazil or Argentina appointing a non native manager? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Xela said: The England manager should be English. Thats not racist, or xenophobic IMO. It should be the pinnacle for English born managers. The criteria to manage a national team should be the same as playing for them. I'm sure someone will prove me wrong but I couldn't imagine France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Brazil or Argentina appointing a non native manager? Brazil are considering appointing a Portuguese manager if Ancelotti turns them down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 13 hours ago, villa4europe said: Yeah but it is Southgate who is telling grealish to go to dubai on holiday with James maddison? To me it's just what football is and it's happened naturally Footballers are a lot friendlier with each other now. You don't get those simmering rivalries anymore. Hugely evident at club level as well. Arsenal v Man Utd, 20 years ago was always a spicy affair - likes of Keane and Vieira at each other. Chelsea with Jose and Liverpool with Rafa as well. I think there was genuine hatred at times. Everyone seems more image savvy now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Its almost like his ex England captain mate who he called his hero needs a new job Scouse not English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 13, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Exactly and i dont think sven and capello were failures like mclaren and keegan If i was looking at Englishmen on only one i would give to is howe. Rodgers if be hapoy with but he isnt english Capello was absolutely a failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 5 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Racism at its best. The england job should go to the best person available no matter where they are from just like any football job whether thats domestic or internationally Racism, you joker. I'm not a fan of carrahger, but he thinks more English managers should get the opportunity and just worried that foreign managers may not have the passion, which is debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Capello was absolutely a failure He had one tournament and quit because he was undermined by the FA rightly or wrongly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 Just now, Zatman said: He had one tournament and quit because he was undermined by the FA rightly or wrongly And killed my the media. Players egos played a part too, didn't like the discipline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 I think the only manager in my lifetime not to be a failure, whether English or not, was Bobby Robson, after getting England to a WC semi-final and taking an outstanding West German team to a penalty shoot out. And getting to a WC quarter-final in 1986 with Peter Reid in midfield is an achievement in itself. Venables may well have been good long term but for his resignation over allegations of dodgy deals. Hoddle was hounded out, so we'll never know. But all the others were poor. Southgate has been handed a golden opportunity with so many good players at his disposal, and I think thats what's keeping him in his job. He's likeable manager and I think the players respond to that, but not really a winner imo. Has tendancy to give too much leeway to his "faves". Could England do worse? Yes. Could they do better? Yes, although choices are limited as always. One thing wont change though, and that's the FA. They'll always want a yes man, if they can get one. And that's why we never got Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Capello was absolutely a failure Don't see how was a failure when he had to deal with the terry racism drama and decisions made without his consent like terry being stripped of the captaincy by the fa Also that german loss was highly controversial as we know that wasnt capello. So i think he absolutely wasnt a failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Xela said: The England manager should be English. Thats not racist, or xenophobic IMO. It should be the pinnacle for English born managers. The criteria to manage a national team should be the same as playing for them. I'm sure someone will prove me wrong but I couldn't imagine France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Brazil or Argentina appointing a non native manager? I disagree. Its wrong in my opinion. So if you have 100 shit england managers but numerous excellent foreign managers who would be interested we shouldnt consider them because they are not british? Thats discrimination. If you did that in the work place in the uk for example you would get the pants sued off you. Why would the england job be any different? I think the best person should get the job no matter where they are from personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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