Gareth "Interesting" Southgate

[AJ]

Gareth Southgate hands out easter eggs at Christmas.

[desensitized43]

20 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said:

Yes he can, Wales need to win 4 nil, were pretty much guaranteed. 

I think everyone is over reacting. In every tournament you may need to take risks to win a game in my opinion you don't take risks in the group stages, you do it during the knock outs. Look at all the best tournament teams over the years, they probably make the same decisions as Southgate did last night.

I should clarify, I'd love us to be a better team and more attacking, I just don't think last night was the right time for it.

People aren’t overreacting. They’re angry because they see yet another generation of capable England talent being wasted by someone so risk averse he’d wear a life jacket in the bath.

They can see the trajectory we're currently on. We’ll get out of the group, that’s nailed on now pretty much, but the moment we come up against a half decent team we’ll revert to playing like Greece 2000 but without the capable defending and organisation.

[Tayls]

1 hour ago, stewiek2 said:

I still chuckle remembering the quote that Southgate is the type of bloke who wears a helmet when on his peloton.

Or the one where they said he wears a condom to go cycling. I can’t remember who said it! Was brilliant though. 

[foreveryoung]

Anyone also noticed he had proper hard views on Qatar until that Qatari minister said something about him, like "he needs to be careful what he says". He hardly says anything now, even passes the buck on the rainbow armband to the FA. 

[Kingman]

3 hours ago, stewiek2 said:

I still chuckle remembering the quote that Southgate is the type of bloke who wears a helmet when on his peloton.

Gareth Southgate dose sit down wee's 

[NoelVilla]

10 hours ago, Zatman said:

I think Grealish was begging to take a penalty but was told no by Southgate

There was a video from just before the penalties that showed Grealish trying to get eye-contact with Southgate and he walked right passed him.

[HanoiVillan]

5 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

That's not my argument. But as a side note yes I think he certainly contributed to it.

My argument is a better manager would have won that game in normal time and not needed a penalty shootout. 

I realise that's your argument (as I said so in the brackets of my last post). The good thing about it is it's completely unfalsifiable. We can certainly *imagine* a manager who would have made exactly the right decisions and won the match, and nobody can *prove* that no such manager exists, ergo it's impossible to argue against. 

*My argument* was about something different, which is that despite the claim that you made before, there is at least an element of chance in a penalty shootout (I will accept 'coin toss' was perhaps taking this too far). I think this is clearly right; an Italian player could have slipped as they were about to kick the ball; a player could have glanced in a different direction, which led a goalkeeper to make a different decision, etc etc. Even if people argue, as some have above, that the decisions Southgate made about penalty takers and the penalty training they received was just worse than Italy's, then my contention is that that difference might help Italy win more than 50% of hypothetical shootouts against England (maybe even 80% or 90%!) but it cannot guarantee 100% that Italy won the shootout, ergo the claim that Southgate could never have won a tournament is wrong. 

5 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

The Euros was probably our best chance to do that given the route to the final we got. I don't think we'll get a chance like that again, and I don't think Southgate has the tactical know how to beat enough good teams to win a major tournament.

This is a slightly different argument about the future rather than the past, and I think it's probably right. The chances of any international side reaching the final of a tournament are remote; after all many, many England managers had failed to do so for decades. It's certainly possible that Southgate isn't good enough to do it more than once. The issue is that it's likely to be much harder to find one who is good enough than people give credit for. 

[Davkaus]

2 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Anyone also noticed he had proper hard views on Qatar until that Qatari minister said something about him, like "he needs to be careful what he says". He hardly says anything now, even passes the buck on the rainbow armband to the FA. 

Why is this funny?

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I realise that's your argument (as I said so in the brackets of my last post). The good thing about it is it's completely unfalsifiable. We can certainly *imagine* a manager who would have made exactly the right decisions and won the match, and nobody can *prove* that no such manager exists, ergo it's impossible to argue against. 

*My argument* was about something different, which is that despite the claim that you made before, there is at least an element of chance in a penalty shootout (I will accept 'coin toss' was perhaps taking this too far). I think this is clearly right; an Italian player could have slipped as they were about to kick the ball; a player could have glanced in a different direction, which led a goalkeeper to make a different decision, etc etc. Even if people argue, as some have above, that the decisions Southgate made about penalty takers and the penalty training they received was just worse than Italy's, then my contention is that that difference might help Italy win more than 50% of hypothetical shootouts against England (maybe even 80% or 90%!) but it cannot guarantee 100% that Italy won the shootout, ergo the claim that Southgate could never have won a tournament is wrong. 

This is a slightly different argument about the future rather than the past, and I think it's probably right. The chances of any international side reaching the final of a tournament are remote; after all many, many England managers had failed to do so for decades. It's certainly possible that Southgate isn't good enough to do it more than once. The issue is that it's likely to be much harder to find one who is good enough than people give credit for. 

I’ve never said that Southgate could never have won a tournament. I said we won’t ever win one with him in charge. 
 

Part of that reasoning, as I’ve explained, is we’ve had two very easy runs to finals, and a better manager would have won the Euros with that route. You’re right that we can’t prove that, but it’s my opinion. I don’t have to prove it. 
 

I think you’re focusing too much on the penalty shootout. We came very close to winning that tournament. A bit of luck and we would have. We didn’t get it. In my opinion a better manager wouldn’t have needed the shootout as we were good enough to win in 90 minutes. 

[foreveryoung]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

Why is this funny?

Something you properly believe in you should fight for, Southgate bottled it when he got told off by the Qataris

[Rino8]

Amazes me nowhere is criticising the turret that is Harry Kane. Doesn't run, barely jogs and relies on everybody to move around him while he picks them out.

Has there ever been a top player this immobile? Has any succesful team ever played with this bizarre Pirlo but also a centre forward role?

I've never seen him deliver when it matters and the better the opposition gets the more he struggles.  World class technically but you can't get away with plodding about like a middle aged man at a wedding for 90 minutes. Until we get a more mobile front line we'll never do much more than penalties, set pieces etc we've seen for years

You compare how Lewandowski moves for Poland with Kane here and he looks like Ricky Lambert 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Rino8

[KAZZAM]

50 minutes ago, Rino8 said:

Amazes me nowhere is criticising the turret that is Harry Kane. Doesn't run, barely jogs and relies on everybody to move around him while he picks them out.

Has there ever been a top player this immobile? Has any succesful team ever played with this bizarre Pirlo but also a centre forward role?

I've never seen him deliver when it matters and the better the opposition gets the more he struggles.  World class technically but you can't get away with plodding about like a middle aged man at a wedding for 90 minutes. Until we get a more mobile front line we'll never do much more than penalties, set pieces etc we've seen for years

You compare how Lewandowski moves for Poland with Kane here and he looks like Ricky Lambert 

He defo shouldn't of played if he was carrying an injury. No idea why we rely on him so heavily when we have others waiting in the wings who are great strikers in the Premier league.

I mean Rashford or Wilson upfront vs the USA wouldn't exactly be the end of the world. 

Would be interesting to see a pacey striker upfront. 

[Davkaus]

5 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Something you properly believe in you should fight for, Southgate bottled it when he got told off by the Qataris

If it was in the UK, I'd agree with you. the reality is he's currently in the jurisdiction of a shithole autocracy with a history of locking up dissenters. 

[foreveryoung]

44 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

If it was in the UK, I'd agree with you. the reality is he's currently in the jurisdiction of a shithole autocracy with a history of locking up dissenters. 

I'm sure they would lock up a football manager, that'll do there rep a load of good with the media. 

In reality the team don't really give 2 ***s about it all anyway do they? There just doing it as part of there public profile.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

7 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Something you properly believe in you should fight for, Southgate bottled it when he got told off by the Qataris

However, just before the tournament Southgate was asked directly what he thought about FIFA recommending that national sides stay out of the debate. His reply was a good one as he did not accept that and reaffirmed that as a country we stand up for certain values, equality etc. Certainly did not shirk the question.

I think it was when the squad was announced.

[Zatman]

6 hours ago, Rino8 said:

Amazes me nowhere is criticising the turret that is Harry Kane. Doesn't run, barely jogs and relies on everybody to move around him while he picks them out.

Has there ever been a top player this immobile? Has any succesful team ever played with this bizarre Pirlo but also a centre forward role?

I've never seen him deliver when it matters and the better the opposition gets the more he struggles.  World class technically but you can't get away with plodding about like a middle aged man at a wedding for 90 minutes. Until we get a more mobile front line we'll never do much more than penalties, set pieces etc we've seen for years

You compare how Lewandowski moves for Poland with Kane here and he looks like Ricky Lambert 

Not saying Kane is some nobody but I agree he doesn't inspire confidence for example

Spurs best achievement in probably the last 30 years he was injured and then he had to play the final and they lost

[foreveryoung]

Some tough questions posed to Southgate just on ITV. "Is Foden getting a game against Wales" . Southgate,  "He'll play a important part in this team". Answered like a true **** politician.

[Seal]

On 27/11/2022 at 08:20, desensitized43 said:

People aren’t overreacting. They’re angry because they see yet another generation of capable England talent being wasted by someone so risk averse he’d wear a life jacket in the bath.

They can see the trajectory we're currently on. We’ll get out of the group, that’s nailed on now pretty much, but the moment we come up against a half decent team we’ll revert to playing like Greece 2000 but without the capable defending and organisation.

Still (one of) the greatest trance songs of all time. This is what happens when you play bittersweet symphony backwards.

[Genie]

3 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Some tough questions posed to Southgate just on ITV. "Is Foden getting a game against Wales" . Southgate,  "He'll play an important part in this team". Answered like a true **** politician.

He’s so stubborn he will desperately try not to play him and win to prove a point. 

[meregreen]

England teams always seem to play with fear. The last manager, in my opinion, to break this trait, was Terry Venables. Southgate is just so uninspiring. Still don’t know how he got the job, he was pretty insipid as a club manager. Yet another “ safe” appointment by the FA.