Genie Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 49 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: **** me. You know Southgate has sucked the life out of everyone when people are looking at Harry **** Redknapp as a good option Harry “I’m illiterate so couldn’t have cooked my tax returns” but is speaking fluent German in a TV add for the Sun He’d probably flog places in the squad to players who had an England call up bonus with their clubs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 13 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Have to say I've found your posts on this topic pretty persuasive today, and you've given some good food for thought on why the historical comparisons are not clear cut. I would slightly challenge the above though (even though I get you're being a bit facetious). 2010 England had USA, Algeria and Slovenia, and only got 5 points. The reason we had to face that Germany side that Southgate would perhaps/probably have lost to as well is that we didn't top the group, so missed out on playing Ghana instead. England had what I think is a very similar group in the last World Cup, of USA, Iran and Wales. Finished top with 7 points and avoided the Dutch getting Senegal instead. One of the main reasons I've got past breaking point with Southgate this time is that we so nearly didn't top the group, and ended up waiting on the pitch for the score in the Denmark game. Prior to that he'd done the job in the group stages (I can accept losing to Belgium in 2018, when we had fewer expectations), even if you're also right that the Euros group stages have gotten easier since 2016. Thing is, Capello didn't lose to anyone except for a decent Germany side. It's not that different from what Southgate has dished up, is it? USA came top because of a Rob Green howler - Southgate has been a little more fortunate to have Pickford available throughout his tenure (although I will credit him for being loyal to Pickford from early on, despite some people questioning that pick). My point isn't really that Capello was a good manager for England, the players obviously hated him and had a miserable time, and he was yet another 4-4-2 manager. My point is more that if you ignore all the noise, the performances and results weren't that different from what Southgate would have delivered with that squad, I'm pretty sure of that. Southgate's real gift to English football has been getting the media off the players' backs and avoiding major controversy behind the scenes. The next England manager should copy that. But this puts a bit of perspective on Southgate's achievements. His best result there is the Spurs 2 - 1 Newcastle, and he's done that with more of a Real Madrid / Bayern type of squad than a Spurs squad. The issue of course is that summer tournaments are a terrible way of judging a manager. We still don't really know if Deschamps is a good manager, for example, or just blessed with an incredible generation of players. My feeling is the Spanish manager does deserve enormous credit, because he took a relatively unfancied Spain squad through a really tough run of fixtures (Italy, Germany, France, England) and had them playing excellent football throughout. Most other tournaments are won in more kind of Di Matteo at Chelsea style, or Roberto Martinez winning the FA Cup. You come away pretty unsure whether they just got very lucky with a few dice rolls, a favourable draw, and maybe some top talent turning up in the big moments. Had Southgate won he would have been in that category IMO. Edited July 16 by KentVillan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 8 minutes ago, KentVillan said: This is a fundamentally flawed comparison - due to people being (mostly) locked into their nationality, but the best players gravitating to better teams, there's considerably more of a dropoff in quality as you descend the domestic football pyramid than there is as you go down international rankings. Serbia are equated to League 1 Exeter, with starting players from Atletico Madrid, several from Panathinaikos, Leipzig and a handful of Serie A players. Not arguing England had weak opponents, but that conversion is ludicrous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 14 minutes ago, KentVillan said: But this puts a bit of perspective on Southgate's achievements. What a load of unequivocal and total bollocks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 15 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Thing is, Capello didn't lose to anyone except for a decent Germany side. It's not that different from what Southgate has dished up, is it? USA came top because of a Rob Green howler - Southgate has been a little more fortunate to have Pickford available throughout his tenure (although I will credit him for being loyal to Pickford from early on, despite some people questioning that pick). My point isn't really that Capello was a good manager for England, the players obviously hated him and had a miserable time, and he was yet another 4-4-2 manager. My point is more that if you ignore all the noise, the performances and results weren't that different from what Southgate would have delivered with that squad, I'm pretty sure of that. Southgate's real gift to English football has been getting the media off the players' backs and avoiding major controversy behind the scenes. The next England manager should copy that. The issue of course is that summer tournaments are a terrible way of judging a manager. We still don't really know if Deschamps is a good manager, for example, or just blessed with an incredible generation of players. Well, both. You gotta have top players but you also have to deliver the goods. Deschamps did both. He is way above Southgate's achievements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussG Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 And he's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Resigned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted July 16 Popular Post Share Posted July 16 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 get the statue built Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 16 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16 Right decision. Even for him. It feels right for someone new (well it felt right 3 years ago, but still) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Thanks for everything Gareth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villarule123 Posted July 16 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16 It's coming home!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 He’s gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tonyh29 Posted July 16 Popular Post Share Posted July 16 6 mths rest then takes the United job and gets them from 6th to 9th in the remainder of the season ... 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Feels like the end of the road for him. Right decision. Let's hope whoever we get plays a bit more entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Decent guy and will leave a positive legacy. Probably stayed one tournament too long. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Genie Posted July 16 Popular Post Share Posted July 16 Now, over to the FA to build on this period of stability with the right appointment 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Inevitably he fell into the trap all the others did too, and that’s picking names over form . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 16 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 This sums him up, in my book. We not only got a lucky draw, he was bailed out again and again by wonder goals from nothing. "Go out there and with no coherent system boot one in with an xG of less than 1 in 10" isn't a strategy. He is an incredibly limited coach whose ability and record are almost completely at odds with each other. It's not that we just went out and played freely and created lots of opportunity for these "moments of magic" and the approach paid off, often these were the only attempts we even had, it was absolutely out of nothing. On paper, he's done an incredible job, but the stats and the eye test say otherwise. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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