Genie Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said: All this talk about how this great team spirit has been nurtured, yet I didn't see many England players looking like they were enjoying the occasion. Quite the opposite in fact. A complete lack of self - belief at the time it's needed most. Gareth himself said they were poor at the start because they felt the pressure of the public back home (and of course playing injured players). They never looked good. They never played with freedom, or with a smile on their faces. Toney had a strop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted July 15 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15 6 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said: I look at the squad in 2016 (pre Southgate) and I’m not seeing the same potential toxicity in the names there. As V4E says, the world has kinda changed in that regard too. Slightly off topic and apologies for quoting myself but looking at the squad from 2016, I find myself being fairly underwhelmed. They’re obviously not bad and I’d have backed them to beat Iceland…but looking back (obviously with hindsight), I’m not too surprised that squad weren’t giving the trophy engravers pause for thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 He's probably way past it now but Harry Redknap was the ultimate "moments of magic" manager, and he was actually quite good at getting those moments consistently. Think he would have been a decent fit for this squad. His Tottenham side used to play with a freedom that was fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 4 minutes ago, Genie said: Gareth himself said they were poor at the start because they felt the pressure of the public back home (and of course playing injured players). They never looked good. They never played with freedom, or with a smile on their faces. Toney had a strop. I'm tired, as I'm sure are many, of hearing that pressure excuse. Keep hiding behind that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 20 minutes ago, Keyblade said: He's probably way past it now but Harry Redknap was the ultimate "moments of magic" manager, and he was actually quite good at getting those moments consistently. Think he would have been a decent fit for this squad. His Tottenham side used to play with a freedom that was fun to watch. He had that "Play with enjoyment" factor, which I would love to see from an England side. Uninhibited football, Harry would certainly have been the prime candidate. Terry Venables, tbf, kind of brought an enjoyment to watching the England team. A shame really that he only got the one tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 21 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: I'm tired, as I'm sure are many, of hearing that pressure excuse. Keep hiding behind that. It was my fault. I screamed av it at my tele last night when Pickford got the ball from kick off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 15 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15 Get out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 3 hours ago, KentVillan said: The narrative is that Capello was a terrible England manager, because the players hated him and he couldn't do interviews, and yet his win rate of 67% is superior to everyone except Allardyce (P1 W1). He got to the knockout stages and got knocked out by the first top side he faced. That's very much in keeping with Southgate's record! Edit: just to be clear, I think Capello was a misguided appointment, and I'm being facetious. But on stats alone, it's hard to argue he was much worse than Southgate. I don't see Southgate getting past that Germany side. Have to say I've found your posts on this topic pretty persuasive today, and you've given some good food for thought on why the historical comparisons are not clear cut. I would slightly challenge the above though (even though I get you're being a bit facetious). 2010 England had USA, Algeria and Slovenia, and only got 5 points. The reason we had to face that Germany side that Southgate would perhaps/probably have lost to as well is that we didn't top the group, so missed out on playing Ghana instead. England had what I think is a very similar group in the last World Cup, of USA, Iran and Wales. Finished top with 7 points and avoided the Dutch getting Senegal instead. One of the main reasons I've got past breaking point with Southgate this time is that we so nearly didn't top the group, and ended up waiting on the pitch for the score in the Denmark game. Prior to that he'd done the job in the group stages (I can accept losing to Belgium in 2018, when we had fewer expectations), even if you're also right that the Euros group stages have gotten easier since 2016. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 19 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Have to say I've found your posts on this topic pretty persuasive today, and you've given some good food for thought on why the historical comparisons are not clear cut. If you think his posts have been persuasive then I have some magic beans I'd love to sell you. Capello was an unmitigated disaster. 21 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I can accept losing to Belgium in 2018, when we had fewer expectations You must have a short memory. England played a second XI and deliberately threw that game so they would finish 2nd in the group and go into the easier side of the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Ben Foster told a story about how Capello called him back to the England camp from the birth of his child on the promise he’d be playing the game the next day, then didn’t play him, and didn’t give a shit about it either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 4 hours ago, KentVillan said: The narrative is that Capello was a terrible England manager, because the players hated him and he couldn't do interviews, and yet his win rate of 67% is superior to everyone except Allardyce (P1 W1). He got to the knockout stages and got knocked out by the first top side he faced. That's very much in keeping with Southgate's record! Edit: just to be clear, I think Capello was a misguided appointment, and I'm being facetious. But on stats alone, it's hard to argue he was much worse than Southgate. I don't see Southgate getting past that Germany side. He came second to USA in the world cup group stages hence why we met Germany in the last 16. Win percentage means nothing. It's what you do in the competitions thst matter. Sorry but I think Capello was useless. All the things Southgate got right he got wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) Desperate for Southgate to go. If he doesn't, I look forward to him reigning in that rocket polisher Bellingham. He'll start making trouble soon. Incredible player, so arrogant and abrasive though. Southgate obviously never had anyone remotely challenging since he's been in charge of England. Sancho perhaps, but it's not the same as he was always a fringe player. Bellingham is going to be a key man and key problem. Edited July 16 by Tomaszk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Loser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Whilst it should be acknowledged that Southgate ‘unified’ the England squad, I’d also argue he’s made it very soft for his players. Too many players know that regardless of form they were never going to be dropped and Southgate shied away from the big calls to select or deselect players. so it transpires that Kane was injured throughout the tournament. It would’ve been a big call to drop him but that is what £5m a year should get you - someone who will make the right decision for the detriment of the team. southgate is too soft and too risk averse for management, let alone his inability to set up a team tactically or adapt tactics during matches. Just look at ‘lesser’ teams like Austria, Turkey and even Georgia who played as a unit and clearly well coached and we were reliant on individual ‘moments of magic’… The FA got their perfect yes man in appointing Southgate and lucked out with fortuitous draws. However the quality of football on display has been less than second rate and a mirror image of the players when featuring for their clubs week in week out. The cult of Southgate is over. Time to move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 16 VT Supporter Share Posted July 16 14 hours ago, Keyblade said: He's probably way past it now but Harry Redknap was the ultimate "moments of magic" manager, and he was actually quite good at getting those moments consistently. Think he would have been a decent fit for this squad. His Tottenham side used to play with a freedom that was fun to watch. **** me. You know Southgate has sucked the life out of everyone when people are looking at Harry **** Redknapp as a good option 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 11 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: **** me. You know Southgate has sucked the life out of everyone when people are looking at Harry **** Redknapp as a good option The bar is so low that "lets his team express themselves" seems a revelation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 14 minutes ago, theboyangel said: someone who will make the right decision for the detriment of the team. If you've copy and pasted this from the England national team manager job description, it would certainly explain a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 37 minutes ago, theboyangel said: Too many players know that regardless of form they were never going to be dropped and Southgate shied away from the big calls to select or deselect players. Hence those lacklustre performances from Sterling, Henderson, Rashford and Grealish in Germany. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 12 hours ago, Genie said: Ben Foster told a story about how Capello called him back to the England camp from the birth of his child on the promise he’d be playing the game the next day, then didn’t play him, and didn’t give a shit about it either. I'm surprised he didn't chin the prick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I'm surprised he didn't chin the prick I think he refused the next England call up when Capello was still in charge. He knew he wasn’t going to play so it was a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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