Gareth "Interesting" Southgate

[romavillan]

5 hours ago, villa4europe said:

I don't think he's in a position to get away with it anymore, if he does it he will be called out on it by the media and fans on social media 

Fortunately the 26 man squad means it shouldn't happen, unfortunately it doesn't mean Ollie will actually see the pitch 

Edit - my cock on the block prediction would be that England look pedestrian in the group but finish top, win the 2nd round, lose the QF - Ollie and Bowen don't get a kick and questions are asked as to why not 

Sounds about right, nothing spectacular against sides much weaker, fail against first decent side we face. Extra points if we huff and puff a lot and hit the post or something to make it a heroic defeat. 

[VillaJ100]

6 hours ago, villa4europe said:

I don't think he's in a position to get away with it anymore, if he does it he will be called out on it by the media and fans on social media 

Fortunately the 26 man squad means it shouldn't happen, unfortunately it doesn't mean Ollie will actually see the pitch 

Edit - my cock on the block prediction would be that England look pedestrian in the group but finish top, win the 2nd round, lose the QF - Ollie and Bowen don't get a kick and questions are asked as to why not 

Also Southgates 'gamble' will to be to bring Toney on and he'll look exactly like a striker who hasn't scored in last 10 games

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

It's takes more than just having the players on the pitch, he's blew it twice with stronger teams against Croatia and Italy,  I take nothing for granted when it's come to Southgate and football,  he's well out of his depth and been saved by the strongest squads I have seen in 40 years, but then he comes against managers who devise away around his lego brick football and the cards fall over.

I hope you right but I just can't see it.

I think we shouid get away from being too parochial about england. Yes it wouid be nice if Watkins played a part but for me i just want england to win something..i agree Southgate is not good enough to be Englsnd manager. He's very lucky but ee always get out of the groups under him.

[Adam2003]

8 hours ago, tinker said:

I do think it's Southgates last tournament, he's a busted flush tactically and other managers will out think him and his side kick, Holland, who is next to unless from what I have seen.

 

It’s 100% his last tournament, he was desperate to leave after the WC but the FA had him locked into his contract and wouldn’t let him go. No way he’d sign a new one.

[HanoiVillan]

On 01/06/2024 at 18:21, sharkyvilla said:

Toney over Solanke is a bit of a joke too if you ask me.

Again, as I've said before, Toney takes a better penalty, and 'it's penalties' is pretty much the only reason either would be on the pitch. 

[Zatman]

Nothing be funnier than Southgate bringing on Toney for penalties and he missed

[Genie]

22 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Nothing be funnier than Southgate bringing on Toney for penalties and he missed

Like when Kepa went in goal because of his great penalty saving ability and he didn’t save a single one, iirc he also took one and missed it  

[villa4europe]

Or like bringing on Saka and Rashford in the 119th minute...

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

Again, as I've said before, Toney takes a better penalty, and 'it's penalties' is pretty much the only reason either would be on the pitch. 

Toney is a much better fit if Kane is injured. And that goes for Watkins too.

I think Watkins (or Solanke) is a better option as a second striker if we actually want to try and play differently. Do something different for a game or part of a game.

But as a backup to Kane, as in to slot in to the team with how it already plays if Kane is injured, then Toney actually works better, imo

(that doesn't mean i think he's better than Watkins before anyone says anything. I don't)

[PaulC]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Toney is a much better fit if Kane is injured. And that goes for Watkins too.

I think Watkins (or Solanke) is a better option as a second striker if we actually want to try and play differently. Do something different for a game or part of a game.

But as a backup to Kane, as in to slot in to the team with how it already plays if Kane is injured, then Toney actually works better, imo

(that doesn't mean i think he's better than Watkins before anyone says anything. I don't)

Yes more like for like. But I wonder if Watkins had played against Belgium and Toney against Brazil we'd be having this conversation.

[tinker]

4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Toney is a much better fit if Kane is injured. And that goes for Watkins too.

I think Watkins (or Solanke) is a better option as a second striker if we actually want to try and play differently. Do something different for a game or part of a game.

But as a backup to Kane, as in to slot in to the team with how it already plays if Kane is injured, then Toney actually works better, imo

(that doesn't mean i think he's better than Watkins before anyone says anything. I don't)

Toney hasnt played for Brentford, he's not match fit. How does he replicate Kane, he doesn't drop deep and become the number 10 or take corners...... Ollie's just a better player all round , Toney isn't good enough and he's not fit enough, I can't believe he's even in squad ahead of rashford tbh, its bizarre. 

Edited June 3 by tinker

[Genie]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

Toney hasnt played for Brentford, he's not match fit. How does he replicate Kane, he doesn't drop deep and become the number 10 or take corners...... Ollie's just a better player all round , Toney isn't good enough and he's not fit enough, I can't believe he's even in squad ahead of rashford tbh, its bizarre. 

Agree with this, and I don’t think we have to replace Kane with the most similar player. Watkins being a much better player is better for the team.

Edited June 3 by Genie

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

Toney hasnt played for Brentford, he's not match fit. How does he replicate Kane, he doesn't drop deep and become the number 10 or take corners...... Ollie's just a better player all round , Toney isn't good enough and he's not fit enough, I can't believe he's even in squad ahead of rashford tbh, it’s bizarre. 

Watkins is a better player all round. I specifically said I agree with that. 
 

But Toney is closer to Kane in playing style than Watkins is, so if you want a like for like swap then Toney fits better. Thats why he’s in the squad ahead of Rashford

 

Edit: despite my disclaimer you seem to have taken my post as me sayin mg either Toney is better than Watkins or that Toney should be in the England squad ahead of Watkins (or both)

I said neither

Edited June 3 by Stevo985

[tinker]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Watkins is a better player all round. I specifically said I agree with that. 
 

But Toney is closer to Kane in playing style than Watkins is, so if you want a like for like swap then Toney fits better. Thats why he’s in the squad ahead of Rashford

 

Edit: despite my disclaimer you seem to have taken my post as me sayin mg either Toney is better than Watkins or that Toney should be in the England squad ahead of Watkins (or both)

I said neither

You said Toney is more like Kane, an explanation on why would go someway to clearing up your observations because I can't see it.....

[Stevo985]

7 minutes ago, tinker said:

You said Toney is more like Kane, an explanation on why would go someway to clearing up your observations because I can't see it.....

@HanoiVillan suggested that the only way Toney or Solanke would be on the pitch if they were in the squad would be to take penalties. 
 

I suggested that Toney is more similar to Kane in terms of style than Solanke (or Watkins) so it could be that he got on the pitch because he’s a more like for like replacement. 
 

I didn’t say he was better than either of those players. Or even that he should be in the squad because I think we should be taking strikers that give us more options, not just strikers who are there purely to play in the scenario of Kane being injured. 

Edited June 3 by Stevo985

[HanoiVillan]

Kane comes on and gets or makes for himself about 5 chances in 10 minutes. The bottom line is he's so much better than all the alternatives that he has to play as many minutes as he's able. It's a tallest dwarf competition behind him but if you don't want to change the way the whole team build up when he comes off I think tonight demonstrates Ollie is not the right option unfortunately. 

[Keyblade]

Going to get to the semi-finals and then lose tepidly 2-0 to Portugal or something. Then hopefully signs for Manchester United.

[PaulC]

Just now, Keyblade said:

Going to get to the semi-finals and then lose tepidly 2-0 to Portugal or something. Then hopefully signs for Manchester United.

More likely we will play France in the semis I think.

[foreveryoung]

17 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Kane comes on and gets or makes for himself about 5 chances in 10 minutes. The bottom line is he's so much better than all the alternatives that he has to play as many minutes as he's able. It's a tallest dwarf competition behind him but if you don't want to change the way the whole team build up when he comes off I think tonight demonstrates Ollie is not the right option unfortunately. 

Difference is though, every other player is always looking for Kane to pass to. Watkins don't get this service.

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, foreveryoung said:

Difference is though, every other player is always looking for Kane to pass to. Watkins don't get this service.

It's a bit chicken and egg though isn't it? Why doesn't he get the service? Because he's quite predictable and doesn't drop back between the lines. 

Like, even if it's everyone else's fault that he doesn't get the service, if the players aren't seeing him but they do see Kane, that's the answer in itself isn't it.