TRO Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 27 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Meant more as a the state of their current situation rather than what they are practically doing. In the sense you mean, I kind of agree but they may also be making the effort but simply lack the required quality. Wimbledon "the crazy gang "lacked quality too. The point I am trying to make is.....you can make up a bit of lacking quality with desire and effort.....in some of our players I don't see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 minute ago, TRO said: Wimbledon "the crazy gang "lacked quality too. The point I am trying to make is.....you can make up a bit of lacking quality with desire and effort.....in some of our players I don't see it. Which ones? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Philosopher Posted January 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2017 The midfield is rubbish, to make matters worse we have sold our best midfielder for the last two seasons running. I think Jedinak is useful as he is the only midfielder that actually knows how to protect his back four, combined with his leadership abilities makes him worth keeping for emergencies. Tshibola is young and has potential, just needs to be smarter and a bit more composed (will come with experience). The rest can do one! We need a defensive midfielder that can pass to his teammates and a pass master in addition to bringing in Lansbury. Rhodes doesn't impress me. Seems like a poor mans Darren Bent! Can finish but doesn't really do anything else and half his goals come from the penalty spot. A loan till the end of the season would be okay but permanent would be another royal waste of money. We already spent way over the odds for a striker whose strengths we won't play to (McCormack), and sold another striker whose only strength we couldn't play to (Gestede). There seems to be a total lack of identity in regards to how the team intends to play since MON left and so far Bruce hasn't changed that. The board need to lay down a vision here and say this is how Aston Villa should play football and hire a manager based on this vision. At the moment we are luckily grinding out a few good results (mixed the the odd bad) while looking very unconvincing. The players we are being linked with don't give me confidence that this is changing anytime soon. We have quite a few good players at this level but the balance of the squad is really bad. Half our attackers suit a possession based system, the other half a counter attacking system. We only have one central mid that can protect the back four and rest want to work box to box offering little at either end of the pitch. The transfer business we have done over the last 2 seasons is a joke! 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, TRO said: Wimbledon "the crazy gang "lacked quality too. The point I am trying to make is.....you can make up a bit of lacking quality with desire and effort.....in some of our players I don't see it. This is the thing. The crazy gang had to whole squad working hard, super aggressive all pulling in the same direction - to beat the odds and shut up the nay sayers. Villa cannot do this. We are supposed to be the team with superior quality to go with our size and history. It's chalk and cheese the mentality is totally different. Leicester last season lacked quality compared to the teams they beat to the title, but what they had was great togetherness, great balance, and a specific way of playing that they were perfectly suited to. At Villa we lack ALL those things. I will say though that Bruce appears to have improved the togetherness of the squad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderball Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, Philosopher said: The midfield is rubbish, to make matters worse we have sold our best midfielder for the last two seasons running. I think Jedinak is useful as he is the only midfielder that actually knows how to protect his back four, combined with his leadership abilities makes him worth keeping for emergencies. Tshibola is young and has potential, just needs to be smarter and a bit more composed (will come with experience). The rest can do one! We need a defensive midfielder that can pass to his teammates and a pass master in addition to bringing in Lansbury. Rhodes doesn't impress me. Seems like a poor mans Darren Bent! Can finish but doesn't really do anything else and half his goals come from the penalty spot. A loan till the end of the season would be okay but permanent would be another royal waste of money. We already spent way over the odds for a striker whose strengths we won't play to (McCormack), and sold another striker whose only strength we couldn't play to (Gestede). There seems to be a total lack of identity in regards to how the team intends to play since MON left and so far Bruce hasn't changed that. The board need to lay down a vision here and say this is how Aston Villa should play football and hire a manager based on this vision. At the moment we are luckily grinding out a few good results (mixed the the odd bad) while looking very unconvincing. The players we are being linked with don't give me confidence that this is changing anytime soon. We have quite a few good players at this level but the balance of the squad is really bad. Half our attackers suit a possession based system, the other half a counter attacking system. We only have one central mid that can protect the back four and rest want to work box to box offering little at either end of the pitch. The transfer business we have done over the last 2 seasons is a joke! If I could "like" this 10 times I would. Spot on. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 We need another striker for the rest of the season.. dont worry about January. We arent scoring goals. Gabby wont fix this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 37 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Yes. Fair enough, hope he can prove you're right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 RB Winger AMF Striker We're not going up if we can't sort out our issues this window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Philosopher said: The board need to lay down a vision here and say this is how Aston Villa should play football and hire a manager based on this vision. At the moment we are luckily grinding out a few good results (mixed the the odd bad) while looking very unconvincing. I agreed with all of your post apart from this bit mate. I simply cannot agree that the board of a football club should decide how the team play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Philosopher said: The board need to lay down a vision here and say this is how Aston Villa should play football and hire a manager based on this vision. Woah woah we've already got a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 16 minutes ago, av1 said: I agreed with all of your post apart from this bit mate. I simply cannot agree that the board of a football club should decide how the team play football. I used to think like you in this regard, but after seeing what happened at Swansea and Man U and thinking about it now see value on the board having such a vision. As soon as a new manager comes in he will have his targets and the way he wants to play football and this is good and shouldn't be stopped. This why I specifically mentioned that they have to hire a manager with such a vision in place. When screening candidates they pick guys that have a track record of building team according to the clubs philosophies. This insures a level of continuity. It means existing players will be able to more easily adapt the the new managers tactics. It means new managers will be more likely to build on the work of previous managers then start tearing that work down. The squad would be far more balanced and the play more cohesive as a result if the club had such a vision. Also now is the best time to implement such a vision when our squad and playing style is such a mish-mash, it would provide direction which seems lacking on the playing side. When Tom Fox came in he tried to do this but at that time we were playing a structured counter attacking style based around the speed and power of our attack and lack of quality in midfield. He wanted us to play a more attractive attacking style, but this meant upending our current style and with Sherwoods arrival the attempt to implement this had disastrous consequences. So it can be disruptive if done incorrectly, but once in place the benefits easily outweigh the negatives. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuwabatake Sanjuro Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Yes. Only 1 goal in his last 38 appearances for the club. He did put in a good shift today but he is finished as a good forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 @Philosopher I agree in principle, having a short list of McLeish and Martinez was almost to stupid to comprehend, but how does a board go about deciding how we are to play? I think that Barcelona aside, who really does have a style of play? Will Arsenal still play in the same way when Wenger has gone? Did utd fans under Fergie ever think they would be subjected to the sh#t Mourinho serves up? And more than anything, the 64 thousand dollar question, what is the right way to play football? What if the board decide on a style that the fans dont like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, Kuwabatake Sanjuro said: Only 1 goal in his last 38 appearances for the club. He did put in a good shift today but he is finished as a good forward. You probably right, but I don't think a backs to the wall match against Spurs is a fair match to judge this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, Philosopher said: You probably right, but I don't think a backs to the wall match against Spurs is a fair match to judge this. What about the previous 37 performances? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, av1 said: @Philosopher I agree in principle, having a short list of McLeish and Martinez was almost to stupid to comprehend, but how does a board go about deciding how we are to play? I think that Barcelona aside, who really does have a style of play? Will Arsenal still play in the same way when Wenger has gone? Did utd fans under Fergie ever think they would be subjected to the sh#t Mourinho serves up? And more than anything, the 64 thousand dollar question, what is the right way to play football? What if the board decide on a style that the fans dont like? It's not just Barca. It's Real Madrid, juventus, Ajax, even Tottenham and Chelsea to a lesser extent. Tottenham last three proper managers have playing more attractive attacking football. Pochettino had added a bit of pragmatism to this, but that is all. Juventus have almost always played the 'Italian' way. Real Madrid attack. Chelsea when hiring Conte chose a manager that has a similar tactical outlook as Mourinho and look at the success he is having with the same squad (bar 2 players). Manchester Utd replaced the attacking flowing style of Fergie with the pragmatic structured approach of Moyes with a disastrous result. Swansea gave Monk the job after Landrup, who while sticking with the short passing approach added a little muscle, then the Italian they brought in switched to a counter attacking style and now they are up shits creak. Crystal palce is another example. Pardew wanted to expand palaces game, get them more possession and be more expansive. But the team was very well suited to counter attacking style that relied on the pace of their attack. When in possession palace would move the ball forward as quickly as possible to stretch the game a create more space for the likes of speed merchants like Zaha, Bolassie and Puncheon to exploit. The problem is these attackers need space, in a tight midfield where touch, passing and vision is needed they fall short. So when trying to keep the ball better instead of going for high risk direct passes which stretch the play you look for shorter passes and a more patient build up which squeezes the space blunting the effectiveness of Townsend and Zaha and Puncheon I am not suggesting a very specific set of philosophies. Simply we at Villa expect a possession based approach leaning towards the attack, or a hardworking dynamic counter attacking style or a structured defensive approach, or an aggressive, strong long ball style. Each style requires a very different type of player in many positions. if you switch between styles then you end up changing the equilibrium and it takes time to implement the change in regards to bringing the right players and having the players adapt to the new style of play. There is no right or wrong. As a business man the owner should be looking at what the fan's want to see as they are the one's that have to watch. As a Villa man he might want to look as what has worked for Villa in the past. It doesn't really matter, all that matters is how it's implemented and being consistent and not wavering. Edited January 8, 2017 by Philosopher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 18 minutes ago, KSV said: What about the previous 37 performances? How many were in the championship? Gabby should be able to do something in this league if he has the hunger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Infinte_Pest Posted January 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) Was reading an article about how Derby are winning the race to sign Lansbury , See if you can spot when I questioned the articles veracity. Quote However, reportedly the prospective owner John Jay Moores and co, are trying to influence the club’s decision and it seems like Derby County just might win the race. Premier League outfits like Watford and Birmingham City are also known admirers of the midfielder and if Derby are really keen on landing Lansbury, they have to make a move and fast. Edited January 8, 2017 by Infinte_Pest 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 53 minutes ago, KSV said: What about the previous 37 performances? Shocking, in the main. Nobody is going to argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Infinte_Pest said: Was reading an article about how Derby are winning the race to sign Lansbury , See if you can spot when I questioned the articles veracity. Watford have a football team? farcical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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